I’m not very good with electrical and generators and starters and that type of stuff. I did rebuild my starter but it never worked right and I was very frustrated with it so I broke down to have it rebuilt professionally. While it was there I asked the guy to convert my 6v gen to 12v. He said there is no need to. He said if I run a 6v gen through a 12v reg it will charge my 12v battery. How would I test to see if it’s charging. I did put a multi meter up to my regulator and it only shows it charging by a tiny bit. A fraction of a volt. He did tell me he tested the gen and regulator at his shop and said It charged just fine. But when I even pull a battery cable off and keep it at higher rpm is dies. I’ve see people do this to see if it’s charging because if it is the car will just run off the power the gen is making. But this didn’t work for me. What am I doing wrong? (Sorry for my lack of knowledge in the electrical department) Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Check out this thread maybe? https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=864647 It says some will, some won't, but concensus is it won't last long.
If you put 6v into a regulator and it is set up right you should get around 7 - 7.2 out the other side once the engine has started ( though this should drop a bit once the battery starts to charge up ) not 12v volts. You need around 7 - 7.2v volts to charge a 6v battery. Have you got an ampmeter fitted.
Is the car converted to 12 volts and running a 12 volt battery? Or is it 6 volt and running a 6 volt battery? We need more info to give good advice.
When the guy tested your generator did he ask if it was a positive or negative earth system on the car.
Yes. More info. I think eventually (or quickly) the fields in a generator will burn if it’s used with a 12v battery and regulator without converting it to 12v. The amperage of your regulator has to match the maximum amperage of your generator as well. For example a 30 amp generator will burn up if your regulator is adjusted to 50 amps. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I think maybe there is some confusion here about “generator fluidity“ and the current trendy notion of “gender fluidity”. Newsflash! .....both notions are BS. A generator ‘born’ as a six volt unit will always be a 6 volt unit no matter how much it wants to be a 12 volt unit.....unless and until it undergoes “transgenerator surgery” and is fitted with 12 volt field coils. Ray
In general; To test your charging system, you put a multimeter set to dcv on your battery while car is running and in high revs, it should read like 14.3 volts (for a 12 volt system). When car is off, battery should read like 12.6 or so for a fully charged battery. Assuming you have a good battery, If you are not getting these readings, it could be either a weak/damaged generator OR a regulator that is not adjusted correctly. It could also be wiring, like loose or corroded connections, but let’s assume it’s not. You would then test/adjust your voltage regulator. To adjust a voltage regulator: (best to read up on it and understand how it works 1st, but for the sake of simplifying) Cut out relay’s points should open and disconnect battery when voltage from generator falls below like 12.4ish volts, really this is so your battery isn’t draining into your generator when car is off. You can check this with a multimeter on car while running, then off. Voltage regulator should be keeping the voltage going to the battery at a maximum of 13.8-14.3 while engine is in high rev. This is so your battery will actually charge. You can test this with a multimeter on a car while running. Current regulator should match the max output your generator is designed to handle while under heavy electrical load (lights, fans, wipers, radio etc all working at once). So for a 30amp generator, the regulator should keep the amps under heavy electric load to 30. For this you need an amp meter wired into the circuit while your car is running. If your generator is good, it will be able to produce the correct voltage and amperage when the regulator is adjusted correctly. You see, if something isn’t right with the regulator, the readings will be off and it could be diagnosed as a generator problem. If the regulator is malfunctioning it will damage the internals of the generator. We know your generator is at least functioning, so now you need to see if the regulator is. I still think it might be worth it to either convert your generator or simply get a 12v generator with a matching/working regulator. Very cheap, lots of rebuilt ones for like $50. Boring, but you could convert to an alternator. If you do some reading and YouTubing it will make sense. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
If I were a 12 volt generator, I would be activated by 6 volt generators. It wouldn’t bother me if other 12 volt generators were wired up to other 12 volt generators, it wouldn’t threaten my amperage, I would even bakelite a circuit board for their connection. I might just like to watch training films of 6 volt generators being operated together... Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
When they changed from 6v to 12v around 1956 they often used the same generator but changed the field coils for higher voltage. This means in many cases you can convert a 6v generator to 12v by swapping the coils or, just swap the whole generator. You don't say what you are trying to accomplish so I have to guess some things. My suggestion is to keep the car 6v and don't mess with it. I know everyone thinks it's easy to change to 12v, it's not. You are opening a can of worms you will wish you hadn't. I have changed cars to 12v but these days I would sooner fix the 6v system and keep it stock, it is easier and cheaper and works just as well.
Generator charging systems are pretty simple, about as simple as it gets, but there is a learning curve to them and a few maintenance routines of seemingly minor things that loom large if not addressed, and nobody at O'Reilley's is going to be able to help you with either parts or information. The manuals and troubleshooting &c are available online if you dig around. I've read several people who claim a 6 volt generator will work fine on 12 volts, though I have not tried it. The current output will be reduced. This is usually not a problem if just using lights and ignition. The battery charging tables are higher voltages for a generator system than an alternator. Not sure why, maybe because it's more "choppy"? Charging voltage is temperature based, what works at 80° will not work at 0°, the voltage regulator is temperature compensated. It's close to 15 volts, or more, in extreme cold. You may not plan on driving in subzero cold, but the regulator voltage setpoint is an important adjustment. I would recommend you not &$@c with this. Also keep in mind when generators were in wide use, precision digital LED display voltmeters didn't exist, they used analog type voltmeters. They are accurate, but they work differently. I've found it's OK to measure charging voltage at the battery with a modern voltmeter, but any other diagnostics esp. at the regulator pretty much produces gibberish on the display. Pay attention to what type of generator system you have. There are two main types, "A" like Chrysler used, and type "B" that Ford used. The testing, and polarization connections are completely different, if the wrong test procedure or connections are made it will tend to let the magic smoke out. If reading all this stuff about generators and regulators makes you want to install an alternator, nobody would blame you. They went away for some very good reasons. But they worked back then, and they will work for you if setup right. I used one for years without giving them any attention and it always started everytime, though the batteries didn't seem to last particularly long.
Six volt generators will produce 12 volts, or some of them will, but it’s like an engine “will” turn 7000 rpm. Doesn’t mean you should do it all the time. Bones
The way a generator works, the faster it spins the more volts it makes. Like a graph of speed and volts that goes up and up from left to right. This is why generators don't charge at idle which is noticeable when you are using heater, windshield wipers, and headlights in traffic. Especially if the battery is getting old you can feel things slow down and get dim when you come to a stop and the ammeter goes into the - side. The more you rev up the more volts, until the voltage regulator or cutout calls a halt then the voltage goes no higher. This usually means the ammeter goes to the + side around 15 or 20 MPH. Take off the regulator, or use a 12v one, and the voltage will keep climbing but it might not charge a 12v battery until you hit 30 or 40 MPH.
Ok so i converted the car to 12v it was originally 6v pos ground. But no I have it set up as 12v neg ground. I’ve also heard I have to wire the charging system different to change it to meg ground. Is this true? Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
That's precisely why. Most generators will produce about 50 'pulses' per revolution, an alternator will be over 200. There's also some differences in how a meter will read these due to how they're calibrated. All this is figured out by the engineers and is included in the manufacturers specs.
You can get 12v Positive earth Generators. You do realise that if you change to 12v system then you have got to change certain other components like the coil and the bulbs etc plus you will need voltage droppers for you gauges.
Do not know if you can get this type of battery in the States 12v with 6v take off. You charge it at 12v and connect to the 6v post for you gauge etc, then you can use 12v for starting. I would try companies that make batteries for classic cars
I have completely converted the car to 12v bulbs,gauge reducers, solenoids,everything. It’s all done. I just want to know how to test if my battery is being charged and how to troubleshoot it. Currently it doesn’t loose or gain voltage while running. But when I rev it up the voltage increases by .001 volts every second or so. So that must mean it’s charging very little to none. What could this be caused from. Should I test how many bolts are coming out of the generator iself? Because the thing that has me stumped is how the starter guy tested the generator and voltage regulator combo on his machine and he said it was putting out 12v Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
You're going to have to figure it out by studying the generator publications or shop manual or MoToRs repair manual. It's so basic, a caveman could do it. Basically the first test is to disconnect the regulator, jumper the armature to ground (on a Ford ...) and spool up the generator. It will put out close to 20 volts unregulated. I think this is what's called "Full Fielding" a generator. Check the manual to be sure. Only do this test long enough to see if the generator is working. Check the brushes for good contact on the commutator. Generator 101 As I mentioned previously, different types of generator systems have different wiring connections to the field, consequently the testing is different. If you ask some Random Internet Guy, he's like as not going to 'splain how his other brother Daryl did it on his '59 Schmedlap, and you'll roast the windings or burn points in the voltage regulator.
I take it that the car it is now negative ground. Have you fitted a generator set up for negative. If it is set up for positive ground then you need to polarise it to negative ground or it with not charge.
Sorry, you’re kinda mixed up on this one. Generators work on two circuits A or B. Delco generators are A circuit meaning the regulator sends the field to ground to complete the circuit and let the generator charge. Ford generators ( for the most part except some 8 and 9N tractors) are B circuit meaning the regulator feeds the field to make the generators charge. So on a Ford to full field you disconnect the field at the regulator and feed it, on Delco you disconnect the field and ground it to full field the generator. Also generators don’t care about positive or negative ground, they can “go both ways” so to speekit’s the regulator that cares about positive or negative ground. The field draw on 12v and 6v field coils are different so they should be matched together with the correct voltage regulator as not to burn points in the regulator. Engineers do things for a reason, that’s why there weren’t “universal” regulators for both 6 and 12v. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app www.speedoservice.com Should I rush your rush job or the rush job I was rushing when you rushed in?
thank you for spelling this out-it bugged ne when i read what the other person said about the ford--now you have to explain the next part--how autolite was first one circuit,then changed over later!!--pat
That drives me nuts every time I go to test an Autolite generator on the bench cuz you can’t tell which circuit A or B that it is. So it makes it a pain in the ass to give the customer a “it’s good or bad “answer without opening the generator and taking a peek to see how the field coils are set up. That’s why I didn’t mention Chrysler or Autolite generators in my explanation . Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app www.speedoservice.com Should I rush your rush job or the rush job I was rushing when you rushed in?
Still working on old stuff at the shop and have 4 generator rebuilds waiting to be done next week. It’s funny when I started at the shop 38 years ago customers would come in and ask me if they could talk to the old guy.........now all of a sudden I’m the old guy. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app www.speedoservice.com Should I rush your rush job or the rush job I was rushing when you rushed in?
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