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Hot Rods Were there many 413 wedge gasser race engines back in the day?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by drumyn29, May 23, 2020.

  1. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,798

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Not Gassers, but around here there were three A/SR's with Max Wedge engines. Jim Livingston (shown), along with Frank Wusz, and Harold Davis. Jim Livingston.jpg
     
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  2. Who's hating anything. I think the point of this discussion sailed right over the top of your head. The early '60's Chrysler Corp. car lines had great motors, from the 426 Max Wedge down to the 6 banger. The A727 Torqueflite transmission? Top notch! Chevrolet had the 2 speed Powerglide or 3 speed Turboglide, neither of which were stout enough for the HYPO 409 cars. It was the BW or Muncie manual 4-speed or nothing. The Chrysler 8 3/4" rear end? Just as stout as the Olds/Pontiac or the Ford 9"and way better than what Chevrolet had to offer. It was the low-cost Dodge/Plymouth model lineups where the carbodys themselves left a lot to be desired with respect to materials and construction. I remember them well. A guy that lived not far from me had a '63 Plymouth Savoy 426 wedge with the torqueflight. That thing would put you in the back seat when the throttle went down just like my Chevy would but it didn't have the insulation and the heavier materials that the other makes used, and when you closed the door it sounded like slamming the lid on a trash can. Consequent lighter mass to move with equivalent HP. Advantage Chrysler!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  3. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,170

    PackardV8
    Member

    FWIW, the low-compression industrial version of 413" was used in trucks and motor homes for several years after the regular 413" was discontinued in cars. Seems the 440" didn't live under long WOT pulls uphill, so the 413" was given the grunt work.

    Another factoid; there are forged steel crank 413"s which can be used in a 440" build, but many are 6-bolt. Everyone wants the 8-bolt steel crank.

    jack vines
     
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  4. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 500

    low down A
    Member

    chill dude the point of this discussion was the 413 back in the day. you were the one that changed it to how junk the bodies were.
     
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  5. .........because someone mentioned that it seemed that the Chrysler cars had a performance advantage over the other makes and I raised the point that it was because their cars were lighter than the other makes due to lighter construction materials which made the cars "tinny". High quality performance packages in low quality cars.
     
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  6. mohr hp
    Joined: Nov 18, 2009
    Posts: 929

    mohr hp
    Member
    from Georgia

    I agree with your assessment that early B bodies had build quality issues, but don't forget, they were unibody construction. the lack of a full frame alone saved a lot of weight.
     
  7. i.rant
    Joined: Nov 23, 2009
    Posts: 4,301

    i.rant
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. 1940 Ford

    I remember the 413’s on the street weren’t to be taken lightly back in the day.
    Controlling the launch might have been the biggest problem they had.
     
  8. Good lourde a simple question turns into a drama fest. Lightin the hell up?

    I had a factory 409 bisquit and a 413 Savoy. Both were fun, both got on the track at least once on grudge night (not at the same time). Both pulled comparable ETs and both were outdated by the time they were in my possession.

    Now back to the original question were 413s raced? of course they were just like everything else. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  9. This thread makes me wonder if the OP picked this 413 off ebay laast week. 413 (1).jpg 413.jpg
     
  10. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,413

    southcross2631
    Member

    There was a Dodge Lancer wagon in south Florida in the late 60's that ran B/Gas with a max wedge and a push button. It was a middle of the pack car. Low budget hacked together. It made power ,but poor suspension kept him from being a top car.
     
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  11. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 5,190

    bchctybob
    Member

    Wedge powered gassers from the old days brings three cars to mind, Elvern Pfeiffer’s beautiful and fast Willys coupe, the Mura Bros Willys pickup from the Bay Area and the Pisano Bros injected 413 powered ‘49 Studebaker pickup. I used to see the Pisano Bros shortened pickup run at Lions, it was a screamer. I believe it may still exist, resting peacefully with their ‘53 Stude Bonneville car.
    Pfeiffer’s car was clean as a whistle and had very strange but effective rear suspension.
    Drumyn29, did you buy it? You’re building up quite the collection of bitchin old race stuff!


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  12. foolthrottle
    Joined: Oct 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,402

    foolthrottle
    Member

    whats the Beachboys song about a race between a Stingray and a 413? As a kid in 62 or so the dual quad 413 was a big deal.
     
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  13. [​IMG]

    That'll make a non Mopar Man Drool!!
     
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  14. foolthrottle
    Joined: Oct 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,402

    foolthrottle
    Member

    not my favorite song, but.......
     
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  15. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Remember the Kottler brothers from San Antonio ? They ran a red Dodge 413 in the '60s. I believe their sister ran a B/A Dodge 383 in Powder Puff for a while, but she started running against the "men" and was successful. One brother was Ken. They caused plenty headaches for the Ford and Chevy boys. Good times in the '60s.
     
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  16. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,212

    Elcohaulic

    I remember those 413s running pretty good... They didn't ping like the hemis too..
     
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  17. Arthur
    Joined: Mar 8, 2005
    Posts: 994

    Arthur
    Member
    from NC

    I am NOT being argumentative because I am sure you know more about these things than I do,but if they weren't factory,where did they come from? Aftermarket people would have used aluminum and not cast iron,and my memory,which is getting worse every year,tells me I was seeing them on the A/Super Stock drag cars in 61-62 or so
     
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  18. 65pacecar
    Joined: Sep 22, 2010
    Posts: 16,808

    65pacecar
    Member
    from KY, AZ

    The long ram intakes were factory manifolds and predates the a cross ram intake introduced in 1962. The cross ram intake is also a factory designed intake. The long ram was a strong performer and torque monster, the cross ram was also a strong performer with a focus on drag racing type performance. See pics below.

    chrysler_413_long_ram_by_detroitdemigod_d2ajove-fullview.jpeg 1962Plymouth413MaxWedge_01_700.jpeg

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  19. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 500

    low down A
    Member

    there is nothing to argue about. 65pacecar has it right. the long rams were factory street performance nothing to do with the factory crossram max wedge racing program
     
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  20. flatheadgary
    Joined: Jul 17, 2007
    Posts: 1,012

    flatheadgary
    Member
    from boron,ca

    i had heard back in the day that the long ram manifolds would puddle gas at the bottom of where the carb is bolted on. maybe at idle the motor didn't make enough vacumm to pull it up the ramp to the head? just a little side note: i am putting a 413 in my fed.
     
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  21. Gotgas
    Joined: Jul 22, 2004
    Posts: 7,175

    Gotgas
    Member
    from DFW USA

    Just a little history for those that may not know. Virgil Exner's time at Chrysler was drawing to a close around '60-61, the same time the '62 cars were being worked out. Someone found out that GM was significantly downsizing the '62 Chevrolet, so Chrysler panicked and decided to follow suit for the '62 Plymouth and Dodge cars. They scrambled to scale the cars down and rushed what they had into production. Of course the '62 Chevy was just as big as the '61, and Mopar was left holding the bag with some ugly '62s to sell - right after the '61s that were also an, um, acquired taste. Exner was fired and so began the evolution to the long, clean Mopar styling of the mid-late '60s.

    But back to the '62s, they were unloved generally, but they were also small, about 7/8 scale compared to the competition. That made them fuel efficient and peppy for the time, and with Max Wedges, they were downright nasty on the dragstrip.
     
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  22. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I think everyone should own a 413 once. I worked on many 413 irrigation engines back in the day, Deep wells took strong torque to drive the gearhead. Never saw a BBC or a SBC was a few 460 fords and 300 ford six's. But the majority were 413's. Go out to the well to check on them about ten at night and the 413's were still running and glowing red halfway up the block. Stout MF'rs
     
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  23. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Doesn't answer your gasser question but they were stout.
     
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  24. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,291

    jnaki




    upload_2020-7-25_4-14-6.png 1964
    Hello,

    When I was asked back to Lions Dragstrip to document my friend, Atts Ono’s debut of his red 40 Willys B/Gas Coupe, I tried filming as much as I could for the whole event. It was the first time back in quite some time and the dragstrip had changed since 1960. Out of all of the safety items installed, it was a much nicer set up than before. Most of the cars racing were Willys coupes, trucks and sedans. Throw in a few Anglias and it was the start of the lighter weight race cars. The rules had changed and so had the race cars.

    So, what was this stock bodied Plymouth racer doing right in the middle of all of the Gas Coupe and Sedans racing? It could have been from one of the racing stables of the So Cal Dodge/Plymouth dealers that supplied the fast cars for the SS classes. But, with the addition of some modifications would have thrown this possible SS class racer into the Gas Coupe Classes. Yeakel and Glen Thomas dealerships come to mind.

    Jnaki

    I did not pay much attention to the full run of the Plymouth racer. Sorry… But with all of the top Gas Coupes and Sedans in attendance, throw in some of the best looking and fast trucks in the mix, what else was an enthusiast supposed to do at this great drag race day?


    1964 Lions All Gas Coupe and Sedan meet
     
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