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Hot Rods Suicide vs Traditional Straight axle

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 30fordcoupe, May 23, 2020.

  1. 30fordcoupe
    Joined: Jan 20, 2010
    Posts: 19

    30fordcoupe
    Member
    from michigan

    Has anyone removed a suicide front end and replaced it with a traditional? What is involved? I will assume there is more labor than material involved with the transformation. Just don’t care for the look of the suicide front end.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  2. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Best to post pics to fit your definitions , there's a lot of ideas of what is what ...
     
  3. john walker
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 1,137

    john walker
    Member

    Guess you would convert to a crossmember for the spring to ride in and frame horns that would come down on the axle in case the spring broke.
     
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  4. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Wording is often weird to me, saying TRAD or,,,well I think maybe it was your way of trying to say stock vs suicide?As both can be call traditional.

    I've built hot rods both ways plus.
    My first build in the late 1950s,was a bit of a cross between both.
    So maybe what your looking for too.
    This pic is of my restored hot rod from high school ,it is a 1948 axle set up in a 28A frame with a box cross in between frame horns.
    Your note has no pic,so hard to know what can or can't be done with your own.
    Add pic's to help ideas.
    RestoredToTMy A.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  5. Bill Rinaldi
    Joined: Mar 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,877

    Bill Rinaldi
    Member

    I agree with Dana, you really need a picture to see what you have vs what you want. A suicide front end traditionally extends the axel in front of the radiator by means of a "hanging" perch/"suicide" perch. It normally runs the axel directly under the radiator. Watcha Got? Bill
     
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  6. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 1,958

    X-cpe

    Dana, your picture has answered a question I have had for a while. On mine I had to bend the wishbones like you did to get tire clearance. (not on the road yet) I always wondered if that would create a problem. It looks like yours has held up for 50 years. Either that, or you just haven't hit anything solid enough, hard enough to do damage.
     
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  7. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Anyone that owns a hot rod,no matter who built it*,should do at least a yearly full check* over of nuts an bolts,and all welds on there rod.
    I never have had a weld crack on my old hot rod. I have broken oil pans,motor mounts needed replacing,bent a rim ect. from hitting pot holes hard=that stuff happens over as much time as I've been driving.
    I had a great teacher, show me how to weld with oxy acetylene in the mid 1950s,and I got a used set of tanks an set of my own then. It's the only type of welding I did for many years,built my own stuff an helped with others. In the 1960s,did learn to stickweld with a buzzbox in mid 60s n got one, then a wire welder in the 70s.
    I still like to oxy/acet. best,tig an mig I got about 40 years back are pretty neat,but really any type done well, will work fine. Anything bent,can be done right or wrong,too much bend or too much heat,or done well works good. Always before doing anything,fine out as much as you can. Knowing the engineering adds to the fun.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  8. Kevin Ardinger
    Joined: Aug 31, 2019
    Posts: 778

    Kevin Ardinger
    Member

    I think the biggest issue you may encounter is ride height. I went with the suicide in order to get my ride height correct. You can lower the height by running a suicide setup. That’s my understanding anyway. Going from a suicide setup back to a standard will most likely raise the right height


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  9. Curious; do you have a C notch in your frame over the axle?
     
  10. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    No need for notch,the front spring has good space for flex ,and spring is custom assm. by me from leafs of three springs' that took some hunting, to adjust height an ride. It's a 1948 set up added to a 28 Model A frame,with spring out front of axle=so spring is lower by not having too be on top of axle + being custom spring.
    That also means I can use a softer spring for better ride vs one on top or behind>That's why Ford started doing that at end of the 30s,same thing in rear were spring is behind rear axle.
    The 47 - 48 Ford axle from the factory has about a 3 inch drop built in design,that also puts it all lower.
    All that seemed great to me as a teen in the 50s,>only thing about the front end I did not like was the spring that Ford used had a lot of leafs an big arch to hold up a lot more car *then the hot rod I was building at end of the 50s to drive to high school{in 60 to 62}.
    Maybe better view; 4716667_orig.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  11. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,699

    Koz
    Member

    Dana Barlow's high school ride is just the nuts! This is one of my favorite early Ford frontend setups. You used to see it quite a bit on the East Coast. I believe it fell out of favor because there aren't a lot of aftermarket parts to do it so you need to find all original stuff and it's a bit of fabricating work to make it function properly.

    I'm using this setup on my Vicky and it is just perfect. Great job Dana, especially for a school kid!
     
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  12. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Dana's front end setup usually referred to as Koz mentioned and "EAST COAST" setup meaning that they used a 40/48 front suspension with the spring in front of the axle. A quick and simple way to get hydraulic brakes back in the early days rather than combining the hydraulic brakes with an early axle as we normally do now and was the norm on the west coast.
    The bones are bent for tire clearance because the spring perches on the later axles are quite wide compared to Model A /34 axles.
    This is what most of us call a "suicide front end" Perch welded to the front cross bar of the frame that the front spring bolts to with the axle positioned just in front of the ends of the frame rails. Pretty standard way to mount your axle if you were running A T style rod and it helped get the car lower without a dropped axle. as you see here.
    [​IMG]

    Or do you have what a lot of guys are calling a "Rolling bones" style front end with the spring mounted between the bones and the axle in front of the end of the frame rails where if you break a spring the frame drops to the ground? Similar to this setup?
    [​IMG]

    Still we need to see photos of what you have or are up against to be able to come up with viable and workable suggestions.
     
    dana barlow, redo32 and X38 like this.

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