Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Dent removal basics, metal memory

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, May 25, 2020.

  1. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    Quick question.

    The 55 has a door the size of a barn and the PO had a ton of filler in one area. I know why now. It's been pushed in at some time. Has a football sized dent. I have used a piece of wood, trying to slide along the backside to sort of roll it out. The problem is, it snaps back. I have been using a straight edge to see if I am making progress....No bueno.
    You can't really get to the backside due to the inner structure being so close.

    So, should I heat this area and see if it will relax? Or would that have the opposite effect?
     
    dana barlow and hillbilly like this.
  2. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    Let's see some pictures of said dent.
     
    Roothawg and hillbilly like this.
  3. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 2,059

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  4. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    It's really hard to see. It's maybe 1\8" deep. I'll draw an outline around it.
     

  5. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 5,438

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Heat/quench is generally used to shrink metal and is risky if you are not familiar with it. The best way to do it is put dolly pressure on the back side and hammer the perimeter. It might be worth cutting out the inner structure to get to it.

    The pic will help.

    -Abone.
     
  6. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    Keep in mind, it's not a bad dent. I cant tell that it even moved the sound deadening tar on the inside. It's a smooth dent with no ridges. My guess is, it happened in a field somewhere.
     
  7. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,755

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    the reason it is in and won't stay out is the metal is stretched . You will probably need to heat shrink it to get it to stay out. heat red with a torch to the size of a nickel, then quickly push on the back with a dollie and hammer around the edges of the heated part. this pushes the "extra" steel molecules toward the center of the heated part. repeat as necessary . I think I had to heat shrink 75 or so times on the hood of the dream rod where it looked like soneone jumped on it.
     
  8. I have used heat to shrink. Its easier with two guys. One heats the metal red hot not orange. The other guy works the tools. In my case I had a dolley on the inside and hammered the red spot to create a shrink. With only one guy the metal cools off too fast. You only get a few seconds to work it. After a few shrinks test the panel to see if the oil canning goes away. Repeat until its tight. The panel ends up looking like a spotted leopard as it leaves small brown spots. The spots make it easy to see were you worked. If the bondo is still on this cushions the hammer blows so more dents are not made. After the initial hammering the bondo falls off with heat from a propane torch. Then do the shrinks until its tight. Finish with a file. 20151220_085331.jpg 20151220_092851.jpg 20151220_122157.jpg 20151221_172055.jpg 20151221_172056.jpg 20151221_190230.jpg 20151221_204753.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  9. It sounds like it is oil canning. As Moriarity said will probably need to be shrunk. Shrinking disks are way easier to control shrinking than with torch shrinking.
     
  10. I have heard of the disca but never tried them. The body guy that showed me is well into his 70s so we did it the old way with a plumber's torch.
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  11. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 5,504

    continentaljohn
    Member

    As others have said shrinking disc is great for oil canning issues. The best part you can do them yourself with a angle grinder and the disc. Your basically heating the panel with the disc and quenching it with water. A flame works great but more skill then you think and shit can go south on you if not done right..
     
    hillbilly likes this.
  12. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 5,504

    continentaljohn
    Member

    A simple disc 4.5 that I have had for 20 years when it first came out. I made one but it was dangerous with the size of it 10” and no guard image.jpg
     
  13. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    D29D6C57-017F-4FB7-81A7-7BCBF89167C9.jpeg 82F0F426-039C-4FB7-8494-6DB950C1C882.jpeg Pics for reference. The big circle is a dent. The x marks a spot I have already hammer and dollied. It’s back up to the right height. The small circle is another low spot.
    The other is a shot of the inside structure I have to deal with.

    this freaking thing keeps turning my pics vertical....
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  14. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 5,438

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Either way you do it, it you are going to need access to the backside of the panel. It would not bother me at all to cut a chunk of the structure out then replace it when you are done. If you have someone who was good at the torch method, between the two of you, you could get it fixed without removing the structure, but doing it by yourself is going to be difficult logistically.

    -Abone.
     
    continentaljohn and Moriarity like this.
  15. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 2,059

    1946caddy
    Member
    from washington

    You could also use a stud gun to shrink the metal.
     
  16. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    My dad has one. He is bringing it over for another dent/crease that has no access.
     
  17. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,828

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    my method for metal work is to push pull shrink hit bend cut or weld until it looks like it should.

    works every time. sometimes better than others.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
    Los_Control, Sandgroper and Roothawg like this.
  18. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 9,214

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    If a push comes to a shove, cut the inner frame out for access and dress up the damaged area before welding the inner frame back in. Given that I did a body shop trade it comes easier for me. A shrinking disc and cold compressed air is a game changer when shrinking high spots in panels.
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  19. rdscotty
    Joined: Sep 24, 2008
    Posts: 253

    rdscotty
    Member
    from red deer

    Nothing easier than being an armchair bodyman :rolleyes:.
    There's a lot going on in that panel. Looks like a different door handle/button has been welded in. A trim hole has been welded to the right of your low spot (and possibly where your x is?) There is a possibility that rather than a stretch that needs shrinking, there is excessive shrinkage that requires stretching.

    Without being able to run a hand over the entire panel, it is difficult to give the proper advice.
     
  20. I like to push the low out and use a spoon to work the area around the low spot.
    Then torch shrink as necessary.
    Or work the area with a shrinking disc
     
  21. I've had a few panels that were stretched so badly that i used a thin cutoff wheel and cut about a 3" slice in the panel, as i weld it back up i use a wet rag to cool it and shrink it. Some say that's the wrong way to do it, but it works great for me.
     
  22. STOP!! You probably have some pressure making the over all size of the compress and holding tension in the panel. I for fact see damage along the lower edge that can cause oil can. Another problem can be what looks like a Mig welded trim hole. Finish off the back side and on dolly bring the door skin back to where it belongs. Then if you still have a Low work on it. Yes you may have a little stretch some where but I think I see tension in the skin. Work on that first.
     
  23. I also use a Shrink disc but let me tell ya it can make a small issue much larger if what your doing isn't where the problem is.
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  24. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    Good eye. I did weld up the holes earlier. I got better as I went along. The other side has a lot less warpage. The X is where I hammered it. The football size dent was already there. I know it is hard to "armchair body man" this. Just trying to wrap my head around it before I start. I don't want to make it worse. Some of the panel has discoloration from previous filler.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  25. I would remove the door and set on a stand. Easier to work.
    If you welded on the door before removing or attempt to remove the dent, some pressure could be from the welding.
    I was taught to straighten a panel then weld. This way any distortion from welding won’t be confused with existing damage.
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  26. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    Welllllllll, it wasn't going to be a full blown resto. It creeped that way now.
     
    Blues4U and anthony myrick like this.
  27. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,404

    alchemy
    Member

    It still has undercoating in there? That should probably be scraped out before you are going to do any dent bumping. It's acting like a cushion.

    I've never had a lot of experience with shrinking discs, but my brother has good luck with them. I would use a torch when I need to shrink a stretched spot. But you have a lot less risk with that shrinking disc.
     
    Roothawg likes this.
  28. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    That may be on tomorrows agenda. This project is somewhat overwhelming in the current state. Trying to decide what is the horse and what is the cart....
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  29. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Soooo your saying your '55 is a field car :rolleyes:
     
  30. I agree with Anthony. For me it's a total panel repair before any welding. In looking a the bottom edge you can see the bottom corner is flush to the Rocker as well as the Quarter panel. Looks to be about 2" to the right the edge steps inboard of the Rocker. It looks like you can read the pinch weld seam on the lower edge of the door skin. If that's the case there is tension in the door skin. Unless you want to replace the filler it needs to be brought back out. Learning to read a large panel with more than one issue can be tough. Reverse process is lesson 1. Sometimes it's a combination of working a little on all of them to get things back where they belong. Also read the door edge for signs of damage. That would mean the door frame is now smaller than it should be. Ya gotta work it out. I have an Old tool for stretching door skins from the edge when they have been compressed from edge damage. It's an interesting tool, kind of dated for sure but I still find times it's the only one for a job.
     
    Roothawg, Sandgroper and racer-x like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.