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Projects Well, looks like I'm a Rambler man now!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by KandN Kustoms, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I could be mistaken since I have been in the past, but I believe your rims have the same OD centers(12 5/8") as 15" early Ford "steelies used in the '50s and early 60s on half-ton trucks. Your outers are probably 4" width and perfectly fit around the steelie center that takes the '40-'48 hubcaps. At the time I built my '34, no one made 15"steelies, 4" wide, with the 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern. My buddies ribbed me about Rambler parts on my ride, but I had the only set for a while that cost $28.00 totally. Would you be interested in selling your 4 wheels, or did I let the cat out of the bag ? Good luck, Bud !
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  2. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Tell you what..... I'll sell you the rim's but, you have to take the REST of the car too!
    Sent from my SM-G960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  3. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Those skinny wheels were great for converting to front runners on hotrods. All they needed was an early Ford center with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern that accepted the '40-48 Ford hubcap, prior to Wheel Vintiques, Stockton wheels, and other custom wheel companies.
     
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  4. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    OOh, I'm trying to get my '40 sedan up and running and it is taking all my rathole money. Plus, I need some 15X4" rims for the front ! LOL.
     
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  5. flatheadgary
    Joined: Jul 17, 2007
    Posts: 1,012

    flatheadgary
    Member
    from boron,ca

    as far as the tank goes, there comes a time when you have to cut your loses. buy a new tank and modify it if needed.
     
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  6. wicarnut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 9,052

    wicarnut
    Member

    Kool !, Like them Nash cars.
     
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  7. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    Typically use an early Mustang tank on the 64-69 Americans. It's the right size -- you can hang it from the bottom with straps or cut the floor out and mount as it was in Mustangs and Falcons. Some have made a frame from square tubing and bolted under the floor that way.

    The bodies are made of 18 gauge steel, all of it. Some of the sills ("frame" rails) may have doubled areas for added strength, or reinforcement plates in side. You'll find out when cutting apart! Varies between years and models.
     
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  8. I agree, your stock tank is not worth fixing. Too many issues of pinholes and corrosion thinning of the metal. Plus now you have to weld it back together at some point.
    Much easier to find a new tank that can work, modify as needed, New metal welds better. Most gas tanks have lead coated steel. Yes lead and not zinc. Called terne coating. So any welding you need to remove the lead coating first. That is also why they solder good, already have the thin lead coating on them for the new solder to bond with.
     
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  9. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Hey thanks for the input!
    I think my options are either buy and modify a Mustang tank or, just buy a plastic fuel cell for now and mount it in the trunk.
    Then get some 18 gauge and make one myself eventually.
    Sent from my SM-G960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  10. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 956

    sevenhills1952

    Yet another idea, although I've never seen or heard it done, is tank inside a tank.
    If, by checking with vendors you could find one smaller that would fit in your old one, no one would be the wiser.

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
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  11. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Man, I think YOU were the lucky one!
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  12. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    I made one for my 63 wagon from either 16 or 18 gauge. Yours isn't unsalvageable. It looks like it had that POR15 urethane liner in it. That sort of works, but you MUST have 100% coverage inside, and the tank MUST be perfectly clean or it may come loose. When it does you have a mess, as you found out, and so did I!! Since there are just small pin holes you could use a liner from Bill Hirsch (https://www.hirschauto.com/Gas-Tank...MIhoXRzuS_6QIVGqSzCh2_TwNNEAMYASAAEgIj9fD_BwE). Been in business a LONG time! The new liner isn't as good as the old self-etching liner they made in the 80s and early 90s, but it works. It's a very thin coating, not thick like the POR15. It's thinner than latex paint, but it WILL seal pin holes. Anything over about 1/16" (probably a little smaller than that...) needs a piece of fine fiberglass screen over it first, a small piece is in the kit, IIRC. I've used this on several motorcycle tanks and one car tank. It does the job! I used it in the tank I welded up to seal any pin holes (I found 2-3 that were visible) in the welds. I've also used it sot seal a tank in similar condition to yours -- minus the top cut out.
     
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  13. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Well... sometimes you just have to cut some shit up!

    Decided to just mount a fuel cell in the trunk for now.
    So while I waited for that and, my metal for the floors.
    I decided to get a headstart and cut out all the rust and make templates. So when it comes in I can just cut it out and weld it in.
    Of course there was WAY more than I thought!
    Anyway here's some pictures of the carnage........
    20200523_095641.jpeg 20200523_095659.jpeg 20200523_095622.jpeg 20200523_095559.jpeg

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  14. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Plus, I started on the trunk too.
    What I thought was only a couple of spots, ended up being pinholes EVERYWHERE!
    Sounds familiar huh?
    No pictures of that mess yet.....

    Anyway, it seems I always find something weird in all my cars, (bullets, scorpion, old money) but, I never ever seen anything like this!
    I was vacuuming the inner rockers and came across a mouse nest got it out then this dang thing fell on the floor!
    Thumb for scale. 20200523_173955.jpeg 20200523_174031.jpeg

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  15. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Mice need friends too :)
     
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  16. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    Not bad for a neglected over 50 year old car! Check the floor of the cowl vent right above the heater. Like early Mustangs, these are notorious for rusting the lip around the heater air opening, which is just above the heater box in the floor of the cowl. Once the lip on the hole rusts out (or develops holes) water leaks from the heater box onto the floor and the floor of the cowl continues to rust. There is a cowl floor replacement panel that needs a little fitting. Here's my write-up on installing one: http://theamcforum.com/forum/6366-cowl-floor-repair-above-heater_topic77220.html. I've done two of these, mine (in which I made the floor) and installed the prefab panel for a customer. Patched up several others in various ways that weren't rusted out so bad. If just small holes in the bend epoxy putty works fine, then paint or use something like POR-15 on it. Hard to get up and around the lip from underneath, but a small cut-off paint brush, electrical tape and some coat hanger wire and make an "up and around" paint brush...
     
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  17. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Hey farna,
    Thanks for the info, I'll have to check it out in a bit when I get out there.
    With my luck, I'll need to replace that too!
    Progress will be slowing down a lot since I will be going back to work tomorrow.
    But I'm going to still plug away at it little by little.
    The goal is to have it driveable by the 4th of July for good guys or, vintage torque fest.
    Can't decide on witch one.

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  18. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    You can just keep the car under cover if the cowl floor is rusted. You could also do what some of the Mustang people do and cut some magnetic sign material to cover the cowl vent intake (vents at base of windshield). Have it covered with vinyl close to the car color. The only drawback is that's where fresh air for the kick panel vents comes in too. Of course you only need the covers if it's raining out... A quick fix until you get around to it anyway!
     
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  19. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Well I got to looking a little yesterday, and I didn't see any rust around the cowl or heater box.
    And I'm sure as hell ain't going to start poking around looking for trouble!
    Good news, my metal came in today, so now I'm ready to get to work!

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  20. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    It might be okay. Run some water in the cowl vents and see if you're getting any inside around the heater. If it had been kept under roof (even a carport) a lot it's probably good. Junk that gets through the screen settles around the lip and holds moisture in the bends, making pin holes first, the progressing. Not much debris there, not much/no rust!
     
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  21. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Man, I bet you guys forgot all about me huh?
    Well I haven't given up on the old Rambler yet.
    We've been super busy at work, 12hr days 6 days a week!
    So shop time been very limited.
    But I HAVE been making progress.
    Got all the floor and trunk rust fixed , painted and, seem sealed.
    Also figured out the mount for the fuel cell in the trunk.
    Anyway here's some pics. They're not pretty but it's just the floor so nobody's going to see it but me! Lol!
    Oh, and also a picture of all the templets I used! 20201122_125223.jpeg 20201122_125215.jpeg 20201122_125150.jpeg 20201122_125144.jpeg 20201122_125515.jpeg

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  22. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    So I'm actually on vacation this week so I hope to get some more progress done.
    Today I painted the under side of the floor.
    What a mess!
    But I got it done. Good thing I bought a disposable paint suit yesterday !
    Wife said I looked like a giant menion! Lol! 20201122_130929.jpeg

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  23. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    So next up is putting up some "poor man's sound deadening"
    Roof flashing.
    Then get the interior put back together. And then, get the fuel cell mounted and hooked up.
    Should be a fun week, stay tuned!

    Sent from my SM-G960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  24. Greg Rogers
    Joined: Oct 11, 2016
    Posts: 802

    Greg Rogers
    Member

    Lookin Good!!
     
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  25. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    That's a fantastic job on the floors!! Will be interesting to see how you mount the fuel cell. Most people just mount a 65 or so Mustang tank in them. Some cut the trunk floor out and mount it Mustang style, some hang it under.

    I had posted a write-up on my cowl floor (above heater box) repair. That ready made patch panel is for the Classic (I have a Classic, not American). The American is built the same way, but I don't know if that patch panel will fit. From the work on the floor I bet you'd make your own anyway. The American is constructed the same as the Classic those years -- it's almost literally a slightly scaled down Classic -- just a little narrower and shorter. a few parts interchange between the 63-66 Classic and 64-69 American. The doors are the same -- just different outer skins and window frames. A few other stampings interchange as well, but the doors were a major cost savings.
     
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  26. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Well, got some progress to show today!
    Last few days I've been seem sealing the under side, putting down some sound deadner and, getting the fuel cell ready to install.
    And that's what I did today!
    I know farna was asking about how I did it.
    Wasn't much to it really, welded up a cradle to set it in then bolted it straight to the trunk floor.
    Bent up some straps to hold it down and bolted those too.
    Got it all wired and plumbed but, haven't tried to fire it up yet.
    Going to wait on that until I get the interior back in.
    Anyway here's the pics! 20201125_141420.jpeg 20201125_141338.jpeg 20201125_142931.jpeg 20201125_143130.jpeg 20201125_144144.jpeg 20201125_144329.jpeg 20201125_145901.jpeg 20201125_152417.jpeg

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  27. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Oh! Forgot to show the under side plumbing!
    The reason I just put it in the trunk is because eventually I want to make my own tank the same size as the original.
    So when that happens I can simply pull out the plastic tank and weld up the 4 bolt holes.
    So next up is getting the interior back in and presentable.
    Going to be interesting cause it just had rubber mats which aren't in the best shape. But I'm going to try to save them.
    We'll see how it goes! 20201125_140706.jpeg

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  28. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    Now I understand why you mounted it in the trunk! I welded my own tank up for my 63 Classic wagon because I could find no suitable substitute. Pretty easy -- if you can bend metal and weld. I used 18 gauge steel, painted inside with a gas tank liner (Bill Hirsch).
    Original-New.jpg
    Original tank next to fabbed unit. Note where the sending unit are. For simplicity I made the first 4-5" of the top angled so I could easily mount the sending unit so it wouldn't contact the floor of the trunk. Made for less bending and welding. I'm a KISS principle sort when it comes to engineering... (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)
    Finished 1.jpg
    Not quite finished. It was intended to be finished, with most of the top just bolted on. Even though I had a good 1/2" lip all around, I couldn't find a sealer that wouldn't wash out. I thought it too much for a gasket -- would have to be pieced, and may leak at joints, especially with age and gasket shrink. So I welded it and made a smaller access panel in the middle for the fuel pump and sending unit. The two tubes on the left are the fuel feed and return lines. The 1/2" curved tube on the right is a vent. Note that there is one on the original tank. The low filler pipe extends into the tank about 12" and is welded to the floor at the inner end for stability.
    Sending unit-Fuel pump.jpg
    universal sending unit is used. Ohm range needs to be 0-73 (empty to full). I used something like this:
    https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=276/category_id=184/mode=prod/prd276.htm
    Takes a bit of trial and error to get the float arm the right length and bent so that it reads decently. Mine will only read up to about 3/4 full when full, but when it's reading empty I have about 3-4 gallons left due to the slope of the bottom of the tank to the front and the rearward position of the float arm. I'm okay with it not reading all the way to full, it's slower going down at first if the tank is truly full. Having 3-4 gallons left at empty is an advantage too. I have a front to rear baffle, seen here and in the next fuel pump photo, but not side to side baffles. I should have put a small baffle near the end of the fuel filter sock and not made an angle cut at the lower front of the center brace/baffle. If I get to the empty mark and make a real hard left or right turn I can have a hesitation as the fuel pump sucks a slight amount of air. It's not much, only half a second or so, but it's enough to remind you that you'd better get gas soon! Or just get more when close to empty, like a normal person does!!
    Fuel Pump.jpg
    Fuel pump is a standard 1989 Jeep Cherokee pump, held to baffle by u-bolts. No issues here! I'm running a 1988 Renix 4.0L, slightly hopped up.
    Access panel.jpg
    After running it a few months and smelling gas fumes whenever I had much more than half a tank, I welded the top on and made an access panel. I used 1/8" thick bar stock to strengthen the perimeter of the hole. I also had to use bar stock around the panel itself, drilled through with the lower bars around hole edges (from underneath) tapped for screws. I ran it like this at first, and still had fumes even with a cork gasket! The 18 gauge just wasn't stiff enough to seal, but sandwiching between two pieces of 1/8" bar stock did the trick! So yeah, after taking the tank out twice after the original install I finally got it, and got good at removing the tank! Not shown is the 3/8" drain plug in the left front, just between front and filler tube. That came in handy!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  29. KandN Kustoms
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 461

    KandN Kustoms
    Member

    Hey, that's a awesome job on that tank farna!
    Exactly what I want to do, just have to find the time......

    Sent from my SM-G960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  30. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 5,377

    indyjps
    Member

    Find some pics of Falcon, Nova, early Mustangs that people are replaced floors and compare to your floor. I think you could use a carpet set from one of those and be just fine.
     
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