Projects Joe's American Graffiti Coupe with a Man A Fre (Milner Coupe Clone)

We will get there very soon! Dan Griffin stopped by today. He is brilliant. He's a great guy and a wonderful help. Thank you!

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^^^^^ To all that can't wait.

 

Cleaned and Gapped AC plugs per Dan Griffin. He wanted us to run hot, non resistor plugs. Here's our new babies.....

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Got to work with Dan again today. I am extremely grateful for his help. He has forgotten more about Rochester carbs than I will ever learn. I'm learning so much already! Thank you sir!

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Just noticed my camel hump heads seem to be a bit odd. These heads are cast 3890462. They appear to also be very early with a November 8th 1965 date. Apparently these were made for the 1966 cars. Another source I just found says they were made from 1962 through 1968. Still pretty neat. Am I correct? Thank you!

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^^^^^ Nothing odd at all.

 

We're getting better! Dan estimated that our custom built carbs were providing about 500 cfm each for a huge total of 2000 cfm for our little mouse 327 Chevy. He used his many years of Rochester carburetor experience to come up with a plan. He fabricated block off plates for the inner side of each carb. Each carb will be modified internally as well.

I really was unsure about these changes until we started the car today. The car ran beautifully. It had great throttle response with no smoking or loading up on idle. Finally no exhaust smoke. The results even pleasantly surprised Dan. He said that only half of the planned changes were completed.

Tomorrow we are planning on a test drive.

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I believe he is trying to modify the carburetors to function as a single 4 barrel. It seems to be working great so far. Further tests will give us more information.

Also, we added original AC non-resistor spark plugs. We were looking to add an even stronger spark to the Petronix syatem. I think they are the source of the tachometer reading 2x it's actual value. I will try another set of resistor plugs tomorrow and see if the issue is resolved.

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The good news here is that I am learning so much by working on the car. I really appreciate your input and support. Hopefully I can help others through this journey.

If this doesn't work then we will definitely go back to our previous setup. I am very happy that we seem to have no vacuum or coolant leaks. I am also highly encouraged by the great decrease in exhaust smoke.

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That is our next step if this process fails. Hopefully we will have some success here.

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I'm entertained by how you and your carb man (who I'm guessing has never worked on a no-plenum intake like this before) are ignoring the advice of Mark and other guys who have actually made these intakes work correctly. Makes me laugh every time. You quote the advice and keep saying "that is our next step", but it never comes.

I do hope you eventually get this car running properly.

 

The path you're taking appears to be a opportune way to lean out cylinders and generally make mess of the flow potential this manifold was designed to produce..........why ??

 

You can lead a horse to water ............

 

Guy's what if the intent is not to drive as the intake was designed for? What about the story's of "I bolted a smaller cfm carb on my car at it ran better? Am I trying to stir up the pot?, no. I'm just liking the "out of the box thinking". If there was one change to block off plates to be made @Nicholas Coe would be to block the outer runner vs the inner so as to create a longer path of travel for air and fuel. Unfortunately carbs will need to be moved around.

 

I keep popping into this thread looking for a "we finished and its finally working great, thanks guys"...but 17 pages and still going...

 

Very interesting number!

Jon.

 

I'm running out of lives here.

 

I had to look up why you made your statement... I get it.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cfm-rating-on-rochester-2-barrel-7041114.699158/

 

Unfortunately my paths with this car have been chosen for me. Yesterday was the first time I ever changed my oil and filter alone. I don't yet have the knowledge to work on this car much alone. I am dependent on who actually shows up to help me.

I show my friends this thread and I ask them to follow these well respected recommendations. Some so far have had other ideas based on their experiences. If one of you would show up at my garage then I would do things your way.

I have liked every comment because I respect and admire each of you. Please provide me with the same respect.

The only thing I ever wanted was for the car to be happy. If I had my way then the car would have been good to go last September. I thought I could help others by my learning. Maybe this isn't the place for that.

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Do not get discoraged but You should be listening to Mark Moriarty he is really telling you the straight POOP. We all wish you the best with your COOL Car, Gary

 

Fear not young warrior you're doing fine. Your comment above is understandable, as far as getting good help in any situation it is imperative but I must agree with the others, after you've gone down the path you're on with this fellow I would take Moriarty's advice to heart. Everyone will get through this and the car will run fine in the end. Stay calm.

 

Thank you. I will absolutely do that. I am just working with the help from friends that I have available. Dan has almost 60 years of experience with Rochester carbs. He has a resume from Detroit to California that would make anyone here envious. He wants to do things his way first.

I have the highest respect for Mark.

Please don't take my lack of ability as a lack of desire. I only ever wanted to experience life as a 1960s hotrodder. In a way I'm doing that now. How many people today can say that their hands smell like gas from working on 4 Rochesters. Probably not many.

If you only knew me you would realize where I came from in regards to cars. My nickname in the boxing ring is Bulldog for a reason. I may not be a great mechanic but I will find a way to get there someday.

Please continue to follow me and help where you can. God bless all of you.

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Nicholas - this IS an excellent place to discuss issues and learn, as there are some very savvy dudes that frequent these forums.

If you recall, you called me via telephone early on with this project, and I told you that I had never seen a Man-A-Fre, and because of that, declined to give you specific help; but suggested Mark Moriarty.

A bit more on that recommendation. In the last 61 years, I have built or consulted on well over a thousand multiple carb setups; but I can only remember three of those that were an IR type intake, and none of those were Man-A-Fre. I simply did not feel qualified to give you specific advice.

I do not know the experience of your friends, and certainly not trying to insult them. But if they have not worked on one of these specific systems, their experience, like mine, while certainly not worthless, IS worth less than that of M.M.

About my comment about CFM: There are a number of threads here about CFM and how it is rated (I have an article on my website explaining various rating systems, and I STILL think Mark Twain was the absolute authority of CFM ). I don't remember EXACTLY which Rochester 2-barrels you have, and I cannot read the venturii size in the center of the bowl. They LOOK like small base Rochesters which have a rating on the 4-barrel scale of about 200 CFM, but not certain. But even if you have the very largest of all of the Rochester 2-barrel carbs ever produced (early 1970's Chevrolet truck with 454 CID engine and internal governor), they are only rated 307 CFM on the 4 barrel scale.

So 2000 CFM from 4 carburetors is somewhat interesting.

As others have mentioned, should you finish the path you are currently following, and be less than satisfied, try the suggestions given by M.M.

And whatever you do, DON'T throw in the towel. You have a rare piece of history, and it can be made to work.

Patience.

And should you wish to consider something else about your manifold:

For decades, enthusiasts for performance street use have lived by the equation that CFM = (RPM times CID) divided by 3456.

What many do not realize (or choose to ignore) is that the equation was formulated for a four-stroke, multiple-cylinder engine OF AT LEAST 4 CYLINDERS with a common intake plenum!

For four-stroke engines of 3 or fewer cylinders, the equation becomes CFM = (4/N) times (RPM times CID) divided by 3456 (where N is the number of cylinders).

Your Man-A-Fre manifold effectively converts your 8 cylinder 327 into four 2 cylinder 82 CID engines. Pick an RPM and play with the mathematics.

Jon.

 

My Roadster has 6 carbs that were a little bit of a challenge and the 40 Pontiac has a 421 with 3 rochesters that I am still tuning a little. So no 4 carb manifolds but a little experience in fuel mixers. Keep the faith buddy, it can be fun! Gary

 

I am sorry but I have not read the thread. I do remember seeing Stu Hillborn’s car with a similar set up. It was always a car I admired. The carb on the left rear was huge compared to the other three. The reason was the back two cylinders fire consecutively. The other carbs have a space between firing and can fill the cylinders one at a time. That back rear is trying to fill two at the same time.
Maybe you need a bigger carb there?

 

For starters I am 84 years old and have been doing this since I was 16. To start with the engine had 4 inch and one quarter venture carbs,that is a lot of CFM. The pump circuits were blocked off,no power valves and .060 and the motor would hardly run. With the block off plates (maybe they are wrong) and one working pump squirter the engine fired right up idles good and has very good throttle response. I was surprised myself how well it ran by time I correct all my mistakes this should be a tire smokin son of bitch.