Right here we go again, same as before- another stock chassis build. I knew what I was against a little more this time so I tried to snap some photos along the way to answer some questions across all platforms I posted this, hopefully these will hope someone else out if they decide to take a simular approach. I'm not claiming this is the correct way around any of this, its just how I have gone about the process. From the top then guys, rail into the fixture. I locate on the 2 rear spread holes and work forwards. the first time I put a rail into an empty fixture I was shocked how much they needed to be pulling about. I was fairly fresh to the job still at this stage and the first thing I noticed that front to back- on both sets of repo rails I was supplied the spreader bar holes that come pre drilled are about 5mm out in total length to the stock chassis I made the fixture from, has anyone else found this? 1 by joe curtis, on Flickr --- A little way down we have the pad which allows the rear shock mounts to be drilled, also doubles up as another place to clamp to set or reference the rails. Photos shows how the repo rail natural sits in the fixture once bolted at the front and rear. Im unsure if I went into these a little fuzzy eyed expecting these parts to "put themselves together", alternatively looking at it in shock at how big these rails are and how repeatable things can be mixed with parts from 1932. Either way photos show the rails being pulled into place, note this is on our "second rail" to go into the fixture- photo just for reference 17 by joe curtis, on Flickr 18 by joe curtis, on Flickr The next post down my fixture allows the bottom of the rails to datum a 0* to the table. Both sides are machined to the same height after the the base was welded. These allow me to reference both sides pretty quickly and I can just measure from the deck of the machined pad to the rail if I have to, or place shim between the rail and pad if needed if there is any inconsistency in the rails, plus it gives a nice chunky surface t clamp to if needed. 5 by joe curtis, on Flickr later down the line the block at the rear allows me to put more stock holes into new rails if the customer requires them. More importantly this plate allows me to pull the rails into shape to get the correct width. when making the fixture I was picking up of multiple original hole locations to simple allow me not to have to measure out everything time and time again, this has really helped in generally referencing multiple points of the rails off of the pads alone. I think if I was to make the fixture with a different end product in mind it wouldn't have turned out as useful as it did. 22 by joe curtis, on Flickr 23 by joe curtis, on Flickr 2 by joe curtis, on Flickr Now at the front of the fixture, I set the rail height using the mounting holes for the front shocks. Again as the customer wanted stock holes into the new rails this section doubles up as a drill jig as well as a handy reference point. Before these plates went onto the fixture the centre height of the holes to table deck height were measured using s simple turned location bung, so now I can reference off of these holes knowing they are relative side to side. Having multiple points of defence also allows me to repair stock damaged rails. Those with keen eye will also notice these front series of holes all run on one of the only "flat" sides of the 32 rails. Between this method of rail setting and everything at the rear of the fixture we can easily gauge the rails are sat at the correct position prior to adding in the members. The is very handy due the ordeal some members go through being drilled or cut out of the previous chassis, it doesn't leave us down to many unknowns if we run across an ill fitting part from here on in. Once I'm happy with the rail I clamp it up and pop a single hole in to bolt it to the fixture. 6 by joe curtis, on Flickr Moving onto the members, working from the front of the chassis backwards. The front member locates onto the this machined pad, which bolts to the front towered section. I made this all bolt on so I can go onto mounting alternative members, or using stock locations to make custom mounts down the line. All surfaces are machined, and levelled in both planes for easy setting and repeatability once each section is removed. This front section is made from channel and plate, everything was machined, welded and final matching to set the top surface to the factory 7* with 2 bolting locations to set the front cross member on the factory holes. Although these parts are all machined, each part is measured once its in the fixture just to double check 4 by joe curtis, on Flickr 9 by joe curtis, on Flickr you can see with the front member sitting on the fixture it marries up nicely with the new stamped rails. Though it may seem a little over the top everything so far allows us to repeat or problem solve at an early stage. 7 by joe curtis, on Flickr 10 by joe curtis, on Flickr Final shot once all rivets are set, the chassis had been out of the fixture by this point and rested back in for additional work. Shot just to reference all working methods mentioned above. 10 by joe curtis, on Flickr K member-- again more fixture work. Machined surface on a lump of channel, turned bosses which slotted into the face which I counterbored to set my bolt centres so everything was of known values prior to welding. The bottom section bolts to the table using countersunk bolts to repeat its position. The two lumps were welded in situ whilst bolted unto the original chassis we took measurements from. This allowed me to get the position to the K relative to the table, whilst maintaining the angle of set back on the K in its stock location with any extreme trickery. 3 by joe curtis, on Flickr 13 by joe curtis, on Flickr 12 by joe curtis, on Flickr 11 by joe curtis, on Flickr Rear member- much like the machined pad up front, just a much more basic version. Machined surfaces, Chanel and plate all machined, welded and final machining post welding. Those of you who noted the base is bolted to the body, i didn't want to weld these together- so they are set with countersunk bolts through the base to keep everything as flat. You could easily argue that this is way over the top, but given all parts were machined flat and square it seemed pointless to weld these together to try machine the base back flat and get chatter on the mating face and ruin all the work to date. I hadn't produced any of my own fixtures at this stage so it was more of an exercise in working practise opposed to welding some lumps of box section together. 4 by joe curtis, on Flickr
Joe, I deem you the Marty Strode of the UK. Or is that, Marty Strode is the Joe Curtis of the United States? FANTASTIC!!!!
Now all the members are in, I put the second rail into the fixture and bolt the sections on before pulling the chassis up around the K and rear member where needed. The rails around the K I pull in and check the widths against those of the stock dimensions which can be found on drawings online. At that stage you can start drilling one hole at a time, first a pilot then open out to the rivet size, nut and bolt in each hole as you move around pulling up parts where you need too. Everything that's easily marked out on the rails I drill through both sections, everything on the inside tabes I pilot drill BEFORE I put it into the fixture-(Due to all holes needing to be welded up from where the members have been removed from there previous life in another chassis) The only holes I don't predrill are the ones that you can get a drill in once in the chassis, therefore you can't drill out once its all mounted. For example the tabs on the front members through the bottom rail, these you have to measure from the underside and drill through, along with the bottom 3 on the K. All the others you can go member though the rail, or rail through the member. 16 by joe curtis, on Flickr 25 by joe curtis, on Flickr 24 by joe curtis, on Flickr 20 by joe curtis, on Flickr 26 by joe curtis, on Flickr 27 by joe curtis, on Flickr Before bolting up the members to the rail, deburr the inside from where your going to put your rivet and jack from. The rivet can be held off by a burr, and once you have set it, you don't want to have to cut it out and start again. I found the front 3 flush set rivets to be a pain to clean up the inside, I had to painfully use a small file to remove a couple big old girls. most other places you can get in with a drill and a countersink, or a finger sander *insert sparks photo for dramatic effect* 29 by joe curtis, on Flickr Rivet length and tooling-- most of this info I have gained from other threads I have read, rivets and tooling I used are from bigflatsrivets.com Flush rivets which as the bigger 5/16" rivets, I keep at the full 1" length- top 3 on the front member, top 3 on the K, each side Round set 5/16" rivets (everything apart from your K member legs to chassis rails) I trim 3mm off, this leaves 15mm on the top side of the rail. I trim them by simply holding them in the vice on the smallest amount possible and cutting with a hack saw running the blade against the side of the vice jaw. I then face off and deburr on a disc sander 1-2 by joe curtis, on Flickr I don't cut all of the rivets at one time, I do a hand full between setting whilst the jacks cool down as I was only using 2. I leave one finished size rivet on the vice, and simple top and tail them to make sure they match in length. 2-2 by joe curtis, on Flickr The smaller 1/4" rivets I keep at full length, these go in as round heads both sides, if you have a helper you can easily double gun these in. One person holds the gun at the rear side, whilst the other does the heating and drives the rivet from the outside. On the second chassis I done these alone, with simple home made tooling on the outside of the chassis and drive the rivet from the inside. How ever its super slow going doing this method. Tooling- for the rivet gun is from the above mentioned company, I did find it was too easy to touch down onto the chassis with the standard 5/16th tooling, so for the second chassis I ground a relief on the edge so i can tip slightly with the gun and not mark the chassis. I set most rivets alone so I am holding a torch and a gun at the same time and doing both opps myself, I found the tooling is a little more forgiving this way. Comparison of both stock and modified tooling. I haven't ground right back to a pointed transition, there is a small flat there- if you hammer in right on the piss your going to dig that section right into the rail 3-2 by joe curtis, on Flickr 4-2 by joe curtis, on Flickr Setting flush rivets-- once everything is drilled and bolted on the chassis, I start with the front cross member. Mainly as this is a complete shit job, the flush rivets take longer, are more tricky and in my eyes fairly pointless. especially the K member ones and know one will ever see the dam things as your going to grind them flush anyway. The front member takes me about 4 hours to fully rivet, getting the jack in between the member and rail angers me just thinking about it. Plenty of cups of tea and time away from the job really helps. * I found that adding the countersink to the rail one at a time really helps stopping all the bolts shaking lose every time you drive a rivet in, I guess you could use penny washers if you plan in advance. how ever I removed each bolt and countersunk prior in putting the rivet in. * 30 by joe curtis, on Flickr 31 by joe curtis, on Flickr These take 3/4 goes to set, ideally you will have a helper how ever you can set these alone. it just takes quite a while longer, which really adds to the joys of setting the front member. sense of humour fails become fairly frequent if your not in the right frame of mind. So with our rounding tooling I drive fairly gently to round the head over, couple short bursts and try to keep the rivet going in straight. if you go full gun how and drive the rivet in right on the piss your going to find it hard to pull it back straight. 32 by joe curtis, on Flickr Warm the rivet and drive it into the countersink as much as possible with the rounding over tooling. in true internet style here's a photo of a good example, making you think there was no rude words used in the setting of these rivets. 33 by joe curtis, on Flickr Heat the rivet again, this I found takes a fair bit of heat, gentle heat and just slowly warm the rivet up. Drive flat with the flush tooling. The tooling I have is off of my smaller gun, unsure if its the same as flush tooling for bigger guns. the step in the tooling is for a rubber ring for setting alloy rivets, which clearly has been removed for this job. 34 by joe curtis, on Flickr 35 by joe curtis, on Flickr 36 by joe curtis, on Flickr strangely I have no photos of the rivets all set, and ground flush. The chassis have all left the workshop now too. But that part is fairly self explanatory. How ever there is another update to come, I'm off to make a cup of tea. Tune back in soon. for anyone who read all of the above, sorry if it doesn't make all that much sense. my proof reading skills are as poor as the my writing skills. Hopefully that helps a few guys out wanting to do this job. I went into this with a fair understanding of what was involved from what I read on others thread where they shared their experiences. for now that's it from a physical progression point of you. thanks Joe
Onto the more exciting part of the development of this journey. Fairly early on an opportunity popped up to grab another member on board in the project, which for me has been a great eye opener to the new side of technology and what's possible. We have manifactured some parts already, which we shall get onto in the coming weeks. Here's some examples of work and words from Jamie, The scanner itself works by referncing reflective dots which are placed along the surface of the part. As you move the scanned area along the part, the triangulation of each marker dot is translated to its next available marker. This allows the software to accurately track the scanned area to itself. The software then generates a point cloud which is literally a whole bunch of points in space; it is then the up to the CAD guy to generate a model; which is then used for drawings / manufacturing. IMG_4646 by joe curtis, on Flickr I've included a completed model & overlay (green) which shows the reverse engineered data - Essentially the point cloud data is used as reference for creating surfaces (planar, radii & spline) which is used for laser, machining, drawing etc. (Obviously here is where you make any changes you might want.) It does naturally take a bit of work, but ultimately you can export an unfolded sheet metal net with bend allowances ready for lasercutting and folding on a brake press. It is the (green) reversed engineered data which will be used for drawings, laser blanks etc; it is however possibile to use the point could data for measurement validation - particularly useful for jigs and fixtures. Rear X-Member by joe curtis, on Flickr Scan & CAD Overaly by joe curtis, on Flickr Rear X-Member CAD by joe curtis, on Flickr RR X Member Render R1 1 by joe curtis, on Flickr K-Member 2 by joe curtis, on Flickr K-Member 1 by joe curtis, on Flickr Front X-Member 1 by joe curtis, on Flickr Front X-Member by joe curtis, on Flickr Full Chassis by joe curtis, on Flickr Rail Comparison 1 by joe curtis, on Flickr ---- This is the start to some new parts we are working on, like most projects we have lists of plans and dreams to try and achieve. As we have come to a close with the stock chassis builds, we have come to a short stop with full chassis building. Now its time to work in our spare time and progress with the rest of the parts and try bring something new to the table. For all of my other work please hunt me down on Facebook and instagram @fresh_reflections Thanks Joe
Wow thank you, unsure what I can say to that! Completel honour to be mentioned in the same sentence as Marty let alone any comparison. His work is utterly outstanding. thank you very much, I’m enjoying trying something new to what I would usually do. I’m glad everyone’s enjoying following along. Heres a video put together of making additional chassis pats. These were all produced by the scans, modelled up, cut out of house, folded up at my part time place of work then finished up at my shop. I have heaps of photos to go through but I have been busy with out workshop projects since the chassis work come to an end after chassis No2. As ever all feedback welcome
Awesome job! I’ll be the first to ask- how do I get ahold of a set? I missed the boat when Industrial Chassis was making something similar. I’ve been slowly piecing together a chassis for a ‘32 build, and these would be a great addition. Your YouTube video was well done. I liked and subscribed, but you have comments turned off. I think if you are gonna make more videos like this, make sure your channel is monetized, so if it starts popping off, you can pocket a little bit of money (your hard work should be compensated). The Iron Trap Garage dudes have done well with growing their channel. Based on what I have seen them do, and comparing it to what I have seen skateboarding related channels do, they will do well. I believe with the quality of your work and the quality of that video, you could do well also. Again, great job! And again, I want a set (please)! Edit: looks like YouTube has made things a little different for 2020, but if you plan to upload frequently, keep track of your stats so you can get it set up early on. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
@the pinstriper...nothing short of amazing to witness...thanks for the detailed processes. Look forward to what you have in store for us...
thanks for the compliments on the chassis work and the video work guys. Great feedback for the first video. Thanks for the into Tim, it took me a while but it seemed the comments was turned off as I had the video down for something for kids to watch, I just assumed it was something to do with language. how odd< massive thank you for the kind words and the compassions to other YouTube guys. would be great to make money from doing something I enjoy so much. Thanks for subscribing! Fire over a DM and I can get you a set sorted. ----------- here's the photo set from chassis No2 with the braces fitted up https://flic.kr/p/2iDmtgD]8[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhiyX]10[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhixQ]11[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDk3oo]9[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDk3w4]3[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhiEt]7[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDmtkg]6[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDk3iU]12[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhivL]13[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDk3uR]4[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr ----- Onto out of chassis photos All parts have been de-nibbed from cutting, deburred and sanded prior to folding. Fully TIG welded sections with all welds cleaned off on all mating faces. Giving a ready to paint and install product out of the box. The "to K member" sections are "set" in with 1/4" rivets, welded in and blended off on the back side. Each mating face is 5mm thick, with the braces being 3mm bright steel. We have also added a relief into our design so the stock K member doesn't have to be heated and pulled up to allow for the clearance of the main brace. https://flic.kr/p/2iDmSFu]10[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhGCY]8[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhGB5]12[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhGzS]14[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDkrM2]16[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhGwa]18[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhGGa]1[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDhGFy]3[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDmSHy]4[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr Botom brace is all 5mm thick, fully TIG welded both sides and cleaned off on the outside faces. https://flic.kr/p/2iDkrKJ]19[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDkrKi]20[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr https://flic.kr/p/2iDmSz2]21[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/163824654@N07/]joe curtis[/url], on Flickr I will post a forsake thread in the correct section to keep it all clean and for forum rules. Im going to run 5 off @ £345.00 per kit plus postage, or if you wish come to the workshop and collect- have a chat and a cuppa that would be great too. More than happy to ship world wide. im expecting prices to be up over £400 per kit once everything is priced up once I have my hours dialled in after the first run. The set above is up for grabs if anyone wants something asap. Thanks for looking/reading
Super kind thank you. I’m hoping I can get a few videos together of my other workshop related projects too. I would love to go around the UK and showcase my friends work/workshops too.
Excellent work there, Joe. Great video work and photography too. When I see things like this I realise what a hack I am. Mart.
I just wanted to say that I purchased a set of these, and I am very impressed with the quality of design and manufacturing as well as the service. I’d highly recommend them if you’re looking to stiffen up a stock frame. I’ve been collecting parts to assemble a ‘32 frame for awhile now, and these are a great addition for that future project. Thanks again! Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Thanks for making a purchase Tim. Was really pleased you was happy with the quality- I was really pleased the first set went to the US and such a god home
With the first chassis brace kit swiftly flying off to the US, I have been waiting to clear others customers work before running a batch of 5. Even with the current covid world issues I now have these in stock, it took a little longer than I had planned but we got there. Lots of photos as ever. 1 by joe curtis, on Flickr 2 by joe curtis, on Flickr 3 by joe curtis, on Flickr 5 by joe curtis, on Flickr 6 by joe curtis, on Flickr 8 by joe curtis, on Flickr 7 by joe curtis, on Flickr 9 by joe curtis, on Flickr 11 by joe curtis, on Flickr 16 by joe curtis, on Flickr 17 by joe curtis, on Flickr 19 by joe curtis, on Flickr 20 by joe curtis, on Flickr 18 by joe curtis, on Flickr Just sorting a forsale thread with additional photos and info- plus a small web shop for faster transactions and automated postage quotes. Thanks Joe
Have you done any testing of the increase of torsional stiffness? I ran a test on a stock frame and one I had built with legs and a center torque box. The stock frame rotated 2” and the new frame 1/16”. The main area of movement in a stock frame is in the upper flange of the K member. The bottom is stiff enough. The upper flange deflects into an S shape.
When you say the upper flange on a stock K member twisted into an S shape, what do you mean? Upper flange like the photo below? I’m not visualizing very well. Thanks in advance! Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
I sketched a very exagerated deflection on your picure. It does not take much movement in the crossmember to have a lot of flex in the frame. I show a picture of the frame I built with the legs and the center torque box. It looks like what was under a lot of convertables like a 55 chevy and a 57 T Bird. The legs need to transfer the loads across the middle.
The Jalopy Journal
