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Projects 289 overheating

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by monsgomerici, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. monsgomerici
    Joined: Apr 26, 2020
    Posts: 6

    monsgomerici

    I have a 1965 289 that is overheating. Cylinder pressures are 145 to 150 with one at 160 - all solid pressures. No water in the oil. Plenty of white smoke and boiling over into the overflow tank. I just pulled the intake manifold off. No water in the galley.
    Intake water passages have lots of rust and the head passages have some too. This car set for 15 years without being driven. I’m trying to figure out if I have to pull the heads and replace the head gaskets or if this was just the intake gaskets. Any thoughts?


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  2. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    Sitting 15 years...thermostat/radiator?
     
  3. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Could it possibly have a reverse rotation water pump on it? Does it have a serpentine belt drive that needs a reverse rotation water pump? Did it overheat 15 years ago? What is it in?
     
  4. When I was a kid I had a 289 that always boiled the water out of the over flow. I finally took the heads off and had them milled about .010 and put it back together and everything was OK. I don't know if the head was warped or the gasket surface was too slick or what. I was just glad it worked.
     

  5. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    He beat me to it there.
    You have the intake out already so it isn't hard to pop the thermostat housing off and pull the thermostat out. Stick it in a coffee can with a few inches of water and set it on the stove (not a glass top stove) and heat it up and see if it opens. Either way I'd replace it.

    Pull the radiator out and stick a garden hose in the inlet and run water though it and see how it runs out the bottom. If you get rusty looking water run the hose until you see clear water and then turn the radiator over and flush the other way and repeat a few times until you don't get any crud coming out.
    I can't remember if that engine was one of those that gave you a hard time but some cooling systems want to trap air in the engine and you have to add more after the thermostat opens or bleed the system if you don't drill a small vent hole in the thermostat shell.

    I doubt it has a reverse rotation water pump unless the pump was changed real recently. That usually happens when engines get swapped and the swapper uses the wrong belt system for the pump. = later serpertine belt engine stuck in an earlier chassis and the swapper used the old pulleys and V belts. Or as in one case I saw the later engine with Serpentine swapped into a mid 60's chassis and the car sold and a later owner goes down and buys a water pump for the year of the vehicle with a small block and gets a clockwise rotation V belt pump. He stomped back in the parts house where I worked yelling that the @##$$% pump we sold him was no @##$%^% good and was carrying his old pump. A quick look at the impellers showed the difference.
     
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  6. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Radiator plugged up?
    Do you have a heat scanner?
     
    Kustom.Falcon likes this.
  7. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,045

    KenC
    Member

    Don't know the conditions of the storage but let me relate a little story.

    Way back when I traded for a pair of heads and manifold that had been vatted, valves ground, and painted before finding that the intended block was bad. I put them on the shelf (in my barn) and they sat there for a year or so.

    Now, I traded for a Ford with a burned valve, low speed miss. Pulled the heads and manifolds, bought a valve grind gasket set. An afternoon's work and installed the heads and manifold from my barn. Car started and ran great.

    except
    At highway speeds it would overheat. Slow down to 50 or so and the temp would drop. Keep it at 60 or above and it would lose coolant out the overflow. After several tries at fixing it, the solution was: Remove the pecans from the intake water passages! Darn rats and squirrels!
     
  8. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    Cooling Rule Of Thumb, runs hot at idle not enough fan. Runs hot at highway speeds not enough radiator.
     
  9. Make sure that your distributer spark advance is working properly. Retarded spark can cause overheating.
     
  10. monsgomerici
    Joined: Apr 26, 2020
    Posts: 6

    monsgomerici

    1965 Ford Falcon Ranchero. Stock belt and pulleys. Flushed the radiator out of the car. New Water pump, thermostat, radiator cap. Timing chain cover and timing chain.

    Ran great less the overheating and white smoke.

    If I have good compression can it be a bad head gasket? Intake manifold came off easy. I am really just trying to avoid taking the heads of, mainly because of the exhaust manifold nuts never having been off. Has anyone seen corrosion through the intake coolant passages to the intake?
    It’s the factory 2bbl cast iron intake. Plenty of rust in the passages where the intake meets the heads. BTW leaning towards pulling the heads, as there will be no questions then.


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  11. woodsnwater
    Joined: Apr 4, 2016
    Posts: 502

    woodsnwater
    Member
    from North Al.

    Did it overheat before the new water pump?
     
  12. onetrickpony
    Joined: Sep 21, 2010
    Posts: 753

    onetrickpony
    Member
    from Texas

    Ford small blocks use the head gaskets to block a water passage between the block and head at the front. If the gasket corrodes through, it will overheat just like the head gasket was on backwards.
     
  13. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just a thought if you have an automatic. You might have 2 problems at the same time. The white smoke could be a bad vacuum modulator. The burning of the trans fluid might be contributing to the overheating as well. Or not. And none of this applies if you don't have an automatic.
     
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  14. partssaloon
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 677

    partssaloon
    Member

    Yes, exhaust gas seeping into the radiator.
    Assuming you have a good lower hose. (collapses with RPM)

    I have a 64 Ranchero, 260, 4 spd. about every couple of years I have to flush it hard as it starts making the water/antifreeze rusty. I am the original owner and it now has 311,000 miles on it with a blueprint rebuild at the first 100,000 miles and it is still happening. There was a company called Gano the made an upper hose clear filter to help minimize the problem.
     
  15. monsgomerici
    Joined: Apr 26, 2020
    Posts: 6

    monsgomerici

    I had that happen with a 63 Buick Lesabre 2 door hardtop that I wish I would have kept. New vacuum modulator solved the problem. On the Falcon it’s a 3spd manual.


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  16. monsgomerici
    Joined: Apr 26, 2020
    Posts: 6

    monsgomerici

    Lower has the spring in it. I don’t think it’s collapsing.


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  17. monsgomerici
    Joined: Apr 26, 2020
    Posts: 6

    monsgomerici

    Yes. I though the pump was bad. I did find out the harmonic balancer was bad replacing the WP so some good came of it.


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  18. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 2,459

    6sally6
    Member

    Back flush the block.......crud is normal in the intake because.....the gasket covers the water passages in the back...so crud builds up.
    I'd replace the intake with new gaskets (NONE on the rear and front china wall) use a thick SOLID bead of RTV on them. Sit the intake straight down on the engine. DON'T scoot it back and forth....straight down. I like to use alignment studs on 4 corners to get the intake straight. Torque it to specs. Leave it over night to let the RTV set up. Disconnect the heater hoses and NO thermostat. Run 50% white vinegar and water in the radiator for a few days and drain. replace thermostat..........flush out heater core with garden hose ('hose-pipe' if you're Southern!)
    You DO know a Ford will puke coolant out until the water level is just even with the core in the radiator?! Right?
    Replace big spring ('Sprang" if you're Southern) in the lower radiator hose.
    Run as much initial advance as it will take (so it don't spark rattle going up a hill and still crank when the engines hot!)
    IF this don't work................start soaking those exhaust bolts/nuts/studs ASAP....cause the heads prolly need to come off.
    6sally6
     
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  19. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 2,659

    RmK57
    Member

    If the heads are all bunged up with rust the block isn't going to much better. The whole thing might need a good hot tank.
     
  20. Is this engine stock bore?
     
  21. Dave Mc
    Joined: Mar 8, 2011
    Posts: 2,576

    Dave Mc
    Member

    My older 302 had a heating problem , water in radiator looked good , Flushed the system , as per instructions on the can , water ran like mud for awhile , never had the problem since
     
  22. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,444

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    White smoke out the exhaust, right? Head gasket leaking is my guess. With engine running disconnect one spark plug at a time to see if smoke lessons or stops..
     
    Peter Nowak likes this.
  23. 65 Lunchbox
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 8

    65 Lunchbox
    Member

    I went through this with my 65 Fairlane. A Code 289, all stock at the time. We bought it from a friend who was the original owner in 1981, then drove it as a daily until 1993, so we knew all of the history. I pulled it out of storage in 2007 and tried to get it going. It ran great, but overheated. I tried everything I could think of without tearing it down, but nothing worked.

    Finally, pulled the engine, pulled the intake and heads and as much as I thought I had already gotten out of the block, there was still pretty big chunks of stuff that came out of the block. While I had it apart, I did gaskets and bearings, lapped the valves and new valve seals (the old ones were in little pieces floating in the oil). The passages across the heads and intake were not plugged for me, but that area can definitely cause issues.

    As far as cooling goes, I flushed the radiator until I would have sworn it was clean enough to eat on, but it still didn't seem to flow right. I had it taken apart and "rodded" and I hadn't gotten half of the sludge out of it. Runs great now. The old cooling systems seem to work pretty well, if, everything is really dialed in. Doesn't seem to be a lot of room for error. This year, I put a 6 blade fan on it. Looks pretty original and bolted right in. Hasn't gotten real hot yet, so I haven't had a chance to verify the difference.

    I didn't have any smoke issues outside of the valve seals being shot, but sounds like could be head gasket. As far as the exhaust manifold, mine looked horrible, but I soaked them for a while with PB Blaster and they came off fine. Didn't break a single stud. Studs cleaned up fine too (which was a surprise considering how crusty they were). New nuts and retainers with new manifold gaskets, and worked just fine.

    All in all, I should have just pulled it apart from the beginning.
     
  24. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,214

    sunbeam
    Member

  25. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Back in ‘92.....

    I had a 1962 Ford Galaxie 500 Tudor Victoria Club Coupe. Back then a 30 year old car was a heck of a lot older than a 30 year old car now.

    What this 20 year old wanted to do was take take the 352 down, go through it to mainly clean the crud out of it. Under the valve covers was an awful lot of crud.
    Instead of pulling it and going through it, I listened to these “Old-timers” (who all drove Toyotas). They had all these quick fix ideas but the most popular was just to run it and change the oil.

    That’s what I did. I drove the wheels of it and it did fine. Then I parked it for about a month.
    I had to use it one morning and drove it work.

    She got hot as a firecracker.

    What I’m getting at is, your car was old 30 years ago. It’s antiquated now.

    The cooling system is just one part of the cooling equation. Second up is the oil system followed by timing and fuel mix.

    I ended up doing what I wanted to do on the first place. I dropped the pan, cleaned all the crud out of it, cleaned up under the intake....what I should have done when I got it. It ran great but the rings were shot.

    Running the car and then parking it is what did it in. All that junk was loose, parking it for a month.....did it no favors. Yours has been idle a long time.

    Pull it, take it down. Clean all the oil passages. Flush the block. A SBF block is easy to handle. Clean the pan check or replace stuff like the oil pump. Check bearings. Pay very very close attention to the piston skirts. #1 and #5 are prone to cracking.

    Yes it’s a lot of work to overhaul one.

    Maybe you can get by with just a gasket set if it all cleans up.
     
  26. monsgomerici
    Joined: Apr 26, 2020
    Posts: 6

    monsgomerici

    Ok, heads are off. Not easy but not difficult. Straight forward, and no broken exhaust bolts. Passenger head gasket looked to be the source of the leak. Heads have rust in some ports looks like a lot just got stuck in the smaller head passageways. Block passages look on from the top unlike the intake and heads did/do. Going to tear the valves out and hot tank the heads after I pull the freeze plugs out. Plan on hot tank with simple green or one of the purple cleaners. I have an old 15 gallon ZEP drum I cut the top off of that I’ll put a burner under. I’m leary of going the lye route or the sodium citrate route. After the oil is gone then I’ll put them in my plastic tank with some phosphoric acid and get the rust.

    Valves look pretty good from the valve face but have not looked at the seats yet and the block cylinder walls are in great condition. No ridges at the top and I cannot see any evidence that water was sitting in the cylinders. Engine gasket set on order. Fel Pro with the rubber valve cover gaskets. I have my intake alignment bolts but have not modified them yet. I can tell already that all the valve seals are hard as rocks, as there were broken pieces of ones in the rocker area.
     
  27. verde742
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 6,267

    verde742
    Member

    as anyone heard of this, beside me ?
    when 289 is idling one head get hotter than the other.
    engine would not run cool. turned out in the rebuild kit, it stated one head gasket copper side up,
    other head gasket copper side down. the one gasket was blocking the flow of water, put head gaskets on as instructed never got hot again ......
     
  28. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 595

    Ericnova72
    Member
    from Michigan

    Yes, that is a well known mistake. SBF head gaskets are always marked "Front" at one end, and end up with one colored side up on one bank, and different colored side up on the other bank.
    SBF head gaskets have the water passage holes blocked at one end of the gasket....this blocked end has to be at the front, otherwise water comes in from the pump, goes right up through the front of the head gasket, and up the thermostat to be sent back out to the radiator....water in the back of the block and head just sits there getting hotter and hotter.
    The head gasket blocks those front passages and forces the water to travel through the length of the block BEFORE it can come up through the gasket holes at the back of the head, then water flows forward through the head and up to the thermostat.
    Put a SBF head gasket on wrong and you've got a engine that'll overheat in just a few minutes.

    Since they only make one gasket to fit on both sides, the gasket is asymmetrical as far as cooling hole pattern, they end up with different sides facing up when installed correctly.
    It has tripped up a lot of people over the years, who look at the gaskets and think the same side has to be showing up on each bank.
     
    verde742 likes this.
  29. verde742
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 6,267

    verde742
    Member

    Thanks. Eric. I am old but I still got my. Memor...... ahh I. Forgot where I was going with this
     
  30. I had a 289 in a 49 ford pickup. Didn't know anything about it when I bought it. Pulled out of a barn, changed oil and filled with water. It did fine around town but would slowly overheat out on the hiway. Rear gear was 4.27 so I was buzzing the engine at anything over 45-50 MPH. Pulled the T'stat housing to find no thermostat at all! I put a 180 'stat in it and never had another heating problem. But then I didn't have white smoke like you do. You have a crack somewhere or a bad head gasket.
     

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