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Technical '50 Ford 8BA question.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Big AL Neenyo, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. Big AL Neenyo
    Joined: Feb 27, 2020
    Posts: 39

    Big AL Neenyo
    Member

    I have a '50 Ford Tudor sedan. I noticed something that has me baffled. I noticed that the two water pumps do not use the same belt to drive them.
    The passenger side pump drives with the fan, off of the front pulley on the combo pulley on the crank. The driver side pump drives with the generator, off of the rear pulley on the crank. I have never seen this before, I am pretty new to these engines, but I have never seen this sort of belt configuration, the pump's shafts are different lengths to facilitate this set up.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  2. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    So why is this a problem?
     
  3. flatout51
    Joined: Jul 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,209

    flatout51
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  4. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
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  5. Big AL Neenyo
    Joined: Feb 27, 2020
    Posts: 39

    Big AL Neenyo
    Member

    No' it's not a problem, it;s just that all of the 8BA's and 8 RT's I have ever seen .. used one belt for the Gen./water pumps, and one belt for the fan.
     
  6. Big AL Neenyo
    Joined: Feb 27, 2020
    Posts: 39

    Big AL Neenyo
    Member

    19Fordy, thank you for that link. This is the first I have run across this system, I thought it was done by someone making two different types of water pumps work on this engine. My '50 panel doesn't have this offset pattern with the water pump shafts/pulleys. I haven't seen this on any of the trucks, is it a car thing?
     
    kadillackid likes this.
  7. My Fiddy has the same belt drive as you describe.
    Pretty sure that's the way 49 & 50 8BA's came.
     
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  8. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    Hello,
    the thick belts are 5/8ths ''
    thin belts 3/8's
    you can only run them with the front cover and 8ba distributor
    8ba thin pulley
    8ba and 8cm truck pumps never had thin belts
    mercury 8ba pumps had the engine mount foot in them, thin belts but the mounting ear is higher up
    car pumps have thin pulleys but car mountsings -swap pulleys
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
    Big AL Neenyo, ffr1222k and 62rebel like this.
  9. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Maybe Henry's engineers didn't want both water pumps to fail when a belt broke
     
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  10. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,966

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The '48-'53 8BA/8RT trucks used a single wide 5/8" belt for both pumps and generator, along with '49 Ford and Mercury 8BA/8CM cars. In 1950 Ford and Mercury cars switched to the two narrow 3/8" belts with offset pumps to the end in '53 (USA). The 2 truck style pumps and 4 car style pumps can be interchanged on all blocks, and over the years that is what happened in many cases.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
    Big AL Neenyo and town sedan like this.
  11. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,707

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    NOBBY : Could you please separate your post to "unconfuse" the rest of us as to WTH you are "mixing in" with the discussion of Ford v-belts? Yes, it looks interesting, & probably should have a thread of it's own, just not added on to this one. Thanks
     
  12. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
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    If you want to run one thin belt, I have a right side 8BA water pump that someone rebuilt with a left side pulley. It confused the hell outta me for a couple of minutes when I was replacing the pumps on my '51 coupe. I don't think there is a belt long enough to fit, though.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  13. Big AL Neenyo
    Joined: Feb 27, 2020
    Posts: 39

    Big AL Neenyo
    Member

    tubman, the trucks use a single wide belt application for driving both water pumps., as V8 Bob says. I have that on my '50 panel. I am new to the passenger cars, I thought this pattern that I posted on was a home made fix for something. Not sure I buy into this application as being good, for what ever reason they changed to it.
     
  14. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
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    "Big AL" - Sorry, I meant to add a "sarcastic" smiley to my post but forgot. I'll fix it. My comment was made with my tongue firmly in my cheek. I do have the goofy incorrectly rebuilt pump, though.
     
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  15. razoo lew
    Joined: Apr 11, 2017
    Posts: 536

    razoo lew
    Member
    from Calgary

    Good or not, there were a bunch of Fords made over about 4 years that used this system. Seemed to work for them, I would not be concerned about it.
     
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  16. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 798

    leon bee
    Member

    I've got one of each setup running here. For removing/installing or just adjusting belts, I prefer the narrow belt rig.
     
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  17. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
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    Here for the past 60 + years I just thought that this belt drives this side, that belt drives that side and the older rigs and trucks had wide belts and never gave it another thought.
     
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  18. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    I replaced my 3/8" belts and pullys with 5/8" belt and pullys with a single crank pully.
    If I remember correctly, the larger belts were used on trucks and tractors. The thin belt was used on sedan motors with a thin belt double crank pully.
     
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  19. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    It may be that the use of the 2 thinner belt system was more efficient re: horsepower
    draw on the engine. Plus, it may have provided an engineering
    advantage for the introduction of power steering, and other optional equipment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  20. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,856

    adam401
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    I had always assumed all 8rt 1 big belt drives both pulleys and all 8ba 2 belt system. Is this not the case?
     
  21. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
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  22. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    Better idea everyday of the week and they tried to use them all. Aren't Fords fun?
    -Dave
     
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  23. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,966

    V8 Bob
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    The "8BA" was used in some light trucks but used the single wide belt for both pumps, as did the '49 car 8BA. Go back and re-read my #10 post.
     
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  24. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    It would also be interesting to see if cooling improves or gets worse depending on the number of fan blades.
    There probably is an optimum number but. how do you calculate it?
     
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  25. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 798

    leon bee
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    What about the fan?
     
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  26. flatford8
    Joined: Dec 12, 2012
    Posts: 156

    flatford8
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Lyman,ME.

    I drive a ‘50 Fordor that had a seven blade flex fan on it. It would hold a folded up bed sheet against the radiator at idle. I’ve been chasing a vibration and I changed it to a stock three blade fan. I haven’t noticed any difference in engine temps...... Mark
     
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  27. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    Flathead Dave:
    Please post photos of your complete crank pulley, fan pulley
    and water pump pulley set up. Fan is 6 blade stainless 17 in dia. from Super shops in 1999.

    Here's a photo of an 8BA with 8RT wide belt water pumps, 2 sheave wide belt 50 Merc crank pulley and wide belt fan pulley similar to 50 Ford pick up trucks.. except that the fan pulley is home made.
    Alternator has wide belt pulley and is driven off the water pump belt. Fan is driven off the crank pulley.
     

    Attached Files:

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  28. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
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    from So. Cal.

    Of course the fan. Gotta have the correct pully...
     
  29. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    Has anyone considered or tried to install an electric water pump
    on their flat head? Might alleviate some problems.

    Dave, time to post your photos.
     
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  30. Big AL Neenyo
    Joined: Feb 27, 2020
    Posts: 39

    Big AL Neenyo
    Member

    19Fordy, I have a four blade on my panel, I was trying to find a five blade, the three blade was really common, I am thinking the 4 blades were used on light duty trucks with the five blades being used on the heavy duty trucks? The four blade seems to work pretty good on my 8BA in my panel. I put a shroud on, that was in the pile of parts that came with the truck, it seems they were not used on the 1/2 applications. So far, it seems to help channel the air better, over the engine.
     

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