I’m working on a long term project building a pre-war replica/tribute. The body I plan on fabricating will be un-stressed. It will have minimal hammered areas - unless I discover I have a "gift" for metal shaping, or they change my meds. I’m integrating a grill from a 1950’s Jaguar MK-IV - Jag still had hints of pre-war cars in their 50's grills, and Model-A hood that I got it here for $100 bucks since it has all the fancy stuff like louvers and hinges that I know are way beyond my current skill set and/or budget. Most of the remaining shaping will be done with a roller, brake or hammering or bending around my burn barrel. I "plan on" a combination of flanging and riveting, or welding panels together. Looking at some forum posts here many were recommending 19GA CR DSAK – but also noted that it was more expensive. I contacted Ryerson in Richmond, VA and got a quote on the CR DSAK. I'd never priced bulk sheet metal so I had no idea, but it’s not something they stock so I asked them what CR steel sheets they do stock. They stock CS-B CR, but only in 18 & 20GA. For a quantity of seven 48x120 sheets, the 18GA is about 40% less and the 20GA is about 55% less cost. So the questions are: Is the CS-B CR an acceptable steel for fabricating a body that’s basically covering a rigid frame structure? For a novice should I go with 20GA or 18GA Is seven sheets enough or am I kidding myself? If the body were a 163x36x38 box without a bottom, and the sheets are 48x120 - I'm thinking that 6 sheets would probably be plenty given that the Jag grill replaces the front of the box and the rear will taper to a point. But given this is a new skill for me, I'd get an extra sheet so a total of seven sheets. Would appreciate any input Thanks
Finding that 19 gauge AKDQ steel is not easy. Because I know better and found out the hard way I’d now much sooner spend several hours hunting the right steel down than days being frustrated fighting harder steel. It also depends on how much and what your doing with the steel.
Last I knew Dave Havlir (House of Fabrication) in Ashland Va had 19ga - he is a hambr and advertises in the 'parts' forum and make some very nice headers, shock mounts. Having said that I would go with 18 ga because you will go thru sheets like crazy, with 18ga you can get a few sheets at a time and they're easy to get. In reality you will probably waste 2 pcs for every one that you keep so if you think you need 6 then it'll take 18 to get there. its not like you'll be doing nothing but floors, when you get to wheeling compound curves a sheet of metal becomes scrap is short order. There is no such thing as a simple steel body.
Someone told me Henry liked 19 ga. He did have experience in building earlier stuff. Even 40 years ago, it was 18 or 20 for your project.
I tell guys that if they find a cheap, full length, model A cowl, buy it as it is the hardest part to replicate... that their grandkids may build a woodie, roadster pick-up or ute from it... I am impressed by the way some of you guys can build from flat stock... . go steveu812 go !
I am probably going to get a lot of flak for this but I would say 18 gauge is the way to go. It’s much harder to shape but it’s much more rigid. I am including a couple os samples, the first was some coupe quarter panels I fabricated last year, they were done out of 19 gauge and turned out to be too flimsy. The second is of a 30 cab panel I have been fabricating. The thicker steel means I can butt weld the joins without the worry of distortion or blow through.
Is there a car or few cars youre trying to replicate or model it after? How good of a welder are you (oxy/acet, mig) If you look at all the cars out there, theres pieces you can grab for complex curves and weld in flat(minimal form) areas for the majority. Its a frankenstein way to go about it, but if you dont have shaping tools and dont want a square box its one way to accomplish the goal. Being able to oxy/acet weld for soft shapeable welds will definitely help. Interested in what you come up with.
All the 18 ga. cold rolled I have bought in the last 20 years is within .002" of the spec. for 19 ga. and sometimes within.
As indyjps said you could cut up existing panels. I look at fenders, hoods, and other body panels all the time and see possibilities. I haven't measured yet, but Ive often thought an old Jeep hood could be used to make the top of a cowl. Here's an example of what can be done using donor sheetmetal. Edwardlloyd built this one.
ditto, how about the cowl, inner fender panels and the hood of an old V W bug as sort of a boat tail on a hotrod / custom... thought of it while looking at the front of the bug waiting for the guy to get his boots on... have never found those pieces of an older V W to be cheap...
My friends who know me well also knows I always have some kind of project going on. So I'm always getting the "...what's the latest project?" question. Replying that I was building a replica/tribute to a pre-war race car, would begin the puzzled looks. Adding I was using a '74 Postal Jeep as a donor vehicle...would really mess with their mind. About 2 years in, I filnally I kluged this website together - hopefully clear things up. www.uberwag.com Maybe, maybe not. It's progressed a bit further than the pic on the site, but not much as our business was flooded back in mid-Nov (thankfully not our fault but still a major PITA time sucker). I'm totally into using parts from other cars re-purposing stuff. I have a good MIG (gas) setup and been welding for a while - enough to know how to adjust things and such.
Go with the 18 ga cr. The advantage of the 19 ga is the fact that its annealed which makes it softer and easier to form. You said you weren't doing much shaping with it so it should be fine and the slightly heavier thickness will make it easier to weld as well. As a caution though, large flat areas tend to warp badly when the heat from welding is applied.
I have extensive experieince with 18, 19 and 20 ga steel, by the way you should be buying any guage in cold rolled. It has a consistant thickness. Also, You will not see an advantage froming shapes with AK steel on any thickness, (stands for aluminum killed) so don't mess with trying to find . The auto makers used it to create more elasticity in stamped complex panels. Here is my take. 18 gauge- available anywhere. Good for braces, small shaped pieces- easy to bend in a brake. Not a good metal for shaping large panels. Your going to get frustrated with its ability to be effectively formed when you attempt complex shapes. Hard to hand form without a great deal of effort. 19 gauge- Hard to find from small metal suppliers.Best overall for metal shaping. Good elasticity, much easier to hand form shapes. Great for hammer forming, wheeling and planishing. 20 guage- too thin for shaping, by the time you get a shape formed you will have thin spots in the form. Will oil can easily. Not recommended.
I have heard - but haven't tried it yet - that an old Jeep hood stood on end makes a good starting point for the rear of a homemade bucket or touring body. And I see you already have one of those to study. Maybe a pie cut section out of the middle for the start of a boat tail? ~25 years ago a co worker home built a special around a 20's something Dodge bucket and used a VW front trunk lid on the rear for a deck lid. A lot of folks, myself included, looked at it and knew it looked familiar but couldn't ID the source until he told everyone. Again maybe with a section job make an even better start for a boat tail? Or just the nose of one to blend the Jag grill into a longer, straighter hood? I like your no cookie cutter concept and build plans to see it through, I'll be watching. Ed
This is a good thread. Ive always seen aluminum killed referred to as AKDQ for aluminum killed draw quality. AK STEEL is a steel manufacturer that supplies automotive stamping plants among other things. Just trying to clarify if someone is searching for a specific steel. Worked in a stamping plant for years, saw a lot of steel specs and manufacturers. Same spec, same manufacturer, would run great, next pallet of blanks, draw die issues, splits etc. It can be a real temperamental bitch. Loved the work, environment was terrible.
31 Vickie makes a great point. Doner panels are a great way to do it if you don't have a bunch of equipment. I have 18, 19 and 20 gage. I use them all and they all have there place. The akdq (aluminum killed drawing quality) isn't really worth the trouble. I have it in 19ga. and the 20ga. Cold rolled is stronger and works better for patching. If you do get new steel 20ga seems to match the thickness of most of the older panels I work with. I used some drawing quality 19ga in a 32 ford fender patch recently and I couldn't run it through the e-wheel because it was much softer. I made another patch from 20ga cr. Perfect.....
Wow. Lots of great information in these replies. I see I need to take the 'donor' concept up a notch or two. Not limit myself to seeing panels in terms of fender=fender, door=door etc. but look for possibilites of maybe (half a hood)=(half an upper rear body section) ..or something like that. It's more like seeing shapes for shapes regardless of their original placement. I was first going to do the body in fiberglass - possibly using a boat bow (inverted) for the rear upper section of my car, but decided steel was more in my realm of skills - still never made that mind leap I guess - maybe since there aren't may steel boats for free on CL. So overall, thinking maybe I need to explore this 'revelation' more before commiting to flat sheets right now. Especially since I'll probably want to merge the pieces with similar gauge steel. My first thought was a trip to Leon's (Leon, VA) - renouned as a mecca for older scrapped vehicles. But BEWARE: I just Googled it, and it seems somebody has hacked the URL and it refers you through what looks like a spyware install. Also see on the forum here that it's now run by his son and he knows what he has... But in reality - shapes is shapes - and newer cars have some nice curves and angles too. Not like it's 1979 anymore. And much of the newer model parts can also be bought new as repro stampings (hopefull not made in Wuhan province). Time to start cruzing the "parting out" section in CL. By all means, keep chiming in with more ideas or project pics.
I don’t know exactly what you have envisioned but if you’re thinking on using a boat you should probably look at this thread https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/boattail-roadster-from-hood.1036059/
@31Vicky with a hemi - awesome stuff - lots of great ideas in there - thanks! 'dechrome' even used the spare tire dugout on a truck for the headrest...being a noob at this - took me a second to figure that in my head. I see at least they've rescheduled Spring Carlisle to May 27 - 31, 2020 - instead of just cancelling. Who knows what things will be then, but I can hope and pray it'll happen.
Junk yard late model stuff can sometimes be used....like the rear corners off of a van. Lots of pre-shaped parts hiding in all those junk bodies!
The “new” body panels in bone yards are thin, hard, and metallurgically difficult- just not a whole lot of fun. There’s the over use of vibration phucky stuff and spot welds that eat drill bits but Yes there’s shapes to use if you want them bad enough.
The Jalopy Journal
