Hey guys, helping a friend get his recently acquired 39 Tudor sedan on the road again. It had a sbc swap years ago with a Saginaw 3spd. After sitting over 20yrs in a field the motor is shot so were putting a crate 350 in and might as well do the transmission. He also wants an extra gear. In my searches most prefer muncie over Saginaw 4spds, also the mounts in the car would still be useable as he just wants to do a swap and no big mods. He's just wants the car as a family cruiser and not a high powered race car, so my questions would be what is good reliable 4spd to use for this application and what kind of clutch would work best with it. Also if anyone has a good recommendation for where he could purchase said transmission that would be a bonus. Thanks guys Sent from my SM-G970U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Budget sure will play a role here! We could suggest ten different ones but if he wants one cheap then many of us will be wasting our breathe (so to speak). As far as OEM GM, my money will always be on the Muncie, many say they are overated for the price, sure compared to a Saginaw thats true, it's all in what you want I guess. As far as aftermarket my recommendation is always the Richmond Super T-10, available brand new from Jegs or Summit, buy it once, done. The clutch, same suppliers, too many to mention, just get a quality name brand, a stock replacement diaphragm should work fine.
I agree with DD iv seen guys spend a ton of money on used 4 speeds that were said to be ready to go and by the time they were done could have bought a new one. And you can buy a brand new Muncie in different configurations if you were leaning that way but I’m sure the T10 would suit just fine. And I’ve had good luck with centerforce clutches. Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I sold a Saginaw for $200 and was happy. A few Muncies on local C/L for $550 to $700. Nothing wrong with a T-10 for a cruiser.
Great info guys. As far as budget hes looking to spend (hopefully) around $1000 for something either new or refurbished. A few bucks In either direction I'm sure. Since the sbc is remanufactured there's no point in going with a "ran when pulled" option. I've seen used 4spds for 600 and less but he wants to put something in and not have to pull it right back out because it needs rebuilding. Sent from my SM-G970U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The Saginaw all iron 4 speeds offer a lot of different 1st gear options. You don’t say what rear gear you have but a 3.00 with a 2.20 low is not a fun option for your cruiser in my opinion. (I did it once never again) 2.50’s 1st is typical of the 60’s and good. We just installed a Richmond Super T-10 with a 2.88 low and a 3.25 rear gear. Not running yet but I’ll bet it will be harder to stall starting out. Good luck and keep 3 pedals..
For just a cruiser and not over 300 ft lbs of torque the Saginaw would be my choice. They are cheap and summit brand shifter works really well. If you can find one a T-10 got put in lots of late 70's and early 80's GM stuff. I found one in a Monza that was in the scrapyard. the yard owner figured it was a Saginaw so he told me $ 175.00 . after I got it out he was pissed . He would have charged me 500 bucks.
T56 Camaro 6 speed box............ with a 4 speed shifter knob to keep it traditional They are easy to "mid-shift" Have your cake and eat it too.
Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Out of curiosity, what did you do with the reverse lockout feature [ preventing powershifting up from 4 to rev]
Used it. I have a Hurst knob, with a button. I eliminated the skip-shift solenoid, by putting a drain plug and crush washer in its place. I also shimmed the detent with two copper crush washers, to make the stick easier to move, as it is the shortest one Hurst made (that I know of)
I got my M20 for $650 + $105 to ship, it needed a new side cover from Auto Gear, $189 and I broke it in 2018, cost $400 to get it fixed up, some new and some good used parts. It was a wonder my reverse idler even worked... So I'm into it for almost $1350. For not much more you can get a good Auto Gear M23 or look for deals on Richmonds. When I ran a Saginaw, Hurst did not make a Comp Plus shifter for it, I went with a Mr. Gasket that worked well.
If you are just going to drive it the Saginaw will be fine. That's what I have ran in my 38 Chevy since the 70's, it was $65 at the local salvage yard (RIP Roy). I added a $5 Hurst shifter with $15 for shift rods and a homemade shifter bracket. I've raced it a little, and it hasn't broke (yet). It shifts nice and as noted above there are different gear sets and if you are running tall rear gears you will want a steeper first gear. This link will give you more info. https://www.700r4transmissionhq.com/saginaw-4-speed-identification/
The 63 to 65 Muncie trans uses a 7/8" counter shaft and can be trouble. I went through mine 3 times over the years and gave up. They can be identified by the number on the passenger side of the case that ends in 325. In 66 GM went with a 1" counter shaft and is a far better transmission. However, they both have the aluminum case holding the shaft. Hard use can push the cluster down forcing the counter shaft to wear the case. Beware, much more prevalent with the 7/8 shaft. A competent shop can rebore and bush the case back to standard. I always liked the T 10 or super T 10. I think they are the nicest shifting of all 4 speeds.
On high-end racing boxes like this M22 [that needed to have correct casting numbers for FIA historics] A teardrop shaped steel girdle is "heat shrunk" into the front of the casing. This prevented the countershaft growing apart This particular box could handle 650 Ft/lbs torque [Road Racing]
What rear gear ratio does it have?...300 to 350 will want a wide ratio 4 speed....373 and higher you want a close ratio 4 speed.....rear tire size will also play into this....373 gears with a 30" rear tire your going to want the wide ratio trans
I run a wide ratio M20, it had a 2.56 1st gear until I broke it 2 years ago, now it has a 2.52 1st gear and converted to a 1" counter shaft. I have a 3.89 rear so it works well for me. I run a Zoom diaphragm 11" clutch for a Chevy C30 truck.
Let's see..........He wants a reliable cruiser but wants to add a 4 speed. Basically the 4 speed doesn't add much because it still has 1to1 high gear like the 3 speed. Little more versatility but with a 350 in a liteweight car he won't need to shift a lot just cruising. BUT like most of us overgrown kids, he's going to want to hot rod it now and then and thats where the 4 speed pays off.............and the problems begin. Most used 4 speeds have been "thru" the gears countless times in the over 50 years since their inception. There is a good chance the syncros are not in pristine condition as well as the gears themselves. If/when something lets go, he will have to spend as much as he paid for the transmission to get it rebuilt. Its kinda false economy to use these old and abused 4 speeds in the long run. Best thing he can do is put the 3 speed on a shelf and save it. Then step up and bite the bullet and buy a Tremec TKO. Yep, its a lot more than $1K, but he probably isn't ever going to have a problem and he will enjoy cruising a lot more with the overdrive. It bolts in place of the 3 speed. Drive and enjoy it and if he ever sells the car, put the 3 speed back in it. The removed TKO will command a premium price and a recoup of most of what the purchase price was.......or put it in his next hot rod. Used 4 speeds aren't cheap if rebuilt correctly, so buying a cheap one usually results in problems later. A TKO has 500/600 ft/lbs torque capacity. A mild 350 will never hurt one. As for getting a good clutch inexpensively, try Kentucky Clutch 250 Gun Club Road Brooks Ky 40109 502 955 9173 Really good people and they have good stuff.
Wow thanks guys for all the input. Finally got some.time over there this weekend since the pandemic. To answer a few questions The rear end is a 69 dodge 8 3/4 with 3:23 gears. What model muncie would be best for these gears for a street driver? I believe tired are going to be around 205s on 15s. He just has rollers for now until the white walls come in, but I would say nothing taller than 30" because it's got a small rake to it. He is still set on a 4spd muncie/sag because it will go right in to match what was already there and no extra cutting/welding would be required. I liked the idea a few of u had about the t10 and 5-6 speeds but his budget is still around 1000 for a transmission. Since his work has slowed down with the world he doesn't have the extra income. Also does anyone have any recommendations for a reliable transmission dealer? I told him to talk to a few local shops around houston and hopefully find something local but if he has to have it delivered then so be it. Thanks again for all the input guys.. please stay safe out there Sent from my SM-G970U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
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