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Hot Rods Cowl Steering . . . just stop !

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Pete Eastwood, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thanks for the color photo! Wonder if the car or body exist today?

    Bob
     
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  2. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    rottenleonard
    Member

  3. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 26,345

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
    King ford and loudbang like this.
  4. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,801

    Marty Strode
    Member

    This installation shouldn't drive too bad, the box is securely mounted and connected to double hoops inside the cowl, and the geometry is closer than most cowl steering. Being a historical car, I wasn't at liberty to do it any other way, sort of like Pete's restoration of the "Eliminator". IMG_3272.JPG Puritan 1.jpg
     
  5. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 26,345

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wow that is a Hotrod I have posted some time ago and your restoring it Very Cool...It's in good hands 'No Doubt about it'...;)
     
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  6. $um Fun
    Joined: Dec 13, 2008
    Posts: 660

    $um Fun
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    The car sits in a yard not too far from where it was built originally. It would be nice to see it restored back to the way it was.
     
  7. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
    Member

    I'm in Carmel right now, as close as I'll ever get to it. :) Bob
     
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  8. $um Fun
    Joined: Dec 13, 2008
    Posts: 660

    $um Fun
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    About a hour and half close. Enjoy Pebble, wish I was there.
     
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  9. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
    Member

    Lots of HAMB friendly cars, with a lot more in the coming days. I'll post photos when I get home. Bob
     
  10. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Just saw this. Used Shroeder steering in dirt modifieds in the 70's. 3 bar front suspension with panhard bar. Worked good on the dirt, BUT yes there was issues with steering wheel jerk. I stopped racing dirt mods early 80s, so never got around to fixing the issue. Saw a picture of a Kurtis 500A with a hemi in it that would have provided a solution that would also work for a street rod.
    There is a bell crank on the left front that the drag link from the cockpit steering box's drag link connects to. A lower arm at 90 degrees then has a cross link like a vega cross steering setup connected to the right front spindle.
    Gives the look of cowl steering with the function of a vega cross steering setup. Just an idea that might work...
     
  11. verde742
    Joined: Aug 11, 2010
    Posts: 6,269

    verde742
    Member

    a few years back Roy Rockwell (RIP) assembled a 29 tudor, used a teflon bushing at top and bottom of steering column shaft. When it was a hot day temperature wise, couldn't hardly turn it, when it was cold, HEY no problem. FWIW.
     
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  12. realsteeler
    Joined: Mar 30, 2012
    Posts: 38

    realsteeler
    Member

    Having spent some time ironing out bump steer and death wobble issues on other people's builds, I discovered many things. One of those was that very few owners, having spent a lot of money on their build, will admit publicly that their car drives like shit.
    While this may not mean that all the Rolling Bones cars fall into this category, many with poor geometry certainly do.
     
  13. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Have you driven any rolling bones builds...?
     
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  14. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Good point. All materials have a coefficient of thermal expansion, plastics typically are quite sensitive to temperature AND moisture in some materials. Per my suggestion, I would make the transfer shaft, whether a bell crank or steering shaft, out of steel and use oilite bushings reamed and honed like king pin bushings to give a final clearance based on od of the shaft.
     
  15. Can you provide any more info to locate a visual in this set up ?
     
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  16. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 492

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Willys used a variation of this for years in there Jeeps, it worked fine when everything was tight but it gave extra places for play in steering as the parts started to ware. One of the first things removed by non restoration enthusiasts.

    Phil
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  17. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 2,598

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    Search the web for 1952 kurtis 500A hemi champ car for visual. Picture a short torsion bar situated vertically one arm in line with your cowl steering drag link. The 2nd arm at 90 degrees pointed forward like a vega box would be. A cross steer drag link connecting to the right spindle. I can see it in my mind's eye but that's the best I can describe it.
     
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  18. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,071

    saltracer219
    Member

    It probably was either UHMW or HDPE they are both heat sensitive, Teflon is not, that is why it is used in high heat situations. I spent 8 years working in the Plastics machining industry.
     
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  19. Gofannon
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 924

    Gofannon
    Member

    I just got on to Vesconite. I'm using it for king pin bushings!
    https://www.vesconite.com/
     
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  20. realsteeler
    Joined: Mar 30, 2012
    Posts: 38

    realsteeler
    Member

    Sorry, was not referring specifically to Rolling Bones, but more to cars in general with poor geometry. Physics and geometry are hard to argue against.
     
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Exactly.

    After all, they are not called The Friendly Suggestions of Physics. They are law.
     
  22. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,390

    Squablow
    Member

    This is the best quote I've read here in a long time.
     
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  23. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,026

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    There's a name I haven't heard in ages. I have a second cousin who used to swear by the stuff, back when it was pretty much unknown outside the mining industry.
     
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  24. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    I'm not disputing physics, and got an A+ in geometry....use both daily. I wouldn't overstep my bounds knocking race inspired rods especially having never driven the ones I'm slandering....
     
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  25. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't think you committed slander.

    I have seen several of the cars that you speak of, in motion. They, like most of their build style and era, have limited suspension travel.

    You won't have much in the way of bump-steer, if your suspension does not go up-and-down much. The trade-off would be a rough ride. Some folks are totally fine with that experience. That is fine.

    If I had a dollar for everyone who has told me that hot rods are supposed to handle poorly, steer poorly, ride rough, get terrible mileage, etc. I would build yet another one that did not do any of those things.
     
  26. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    The point is really too engineer things as close to right as you know how,and to that point pass along some know how that is good engineering.
    There is no excuses for using poor engineering if you know better.
    A poor side of some human nature ,seems to be,those that will defend too the death a mistake they made,or one they fail to understand an well not admit that ether.
    Some of the messed up excuses look like this;
    1,How do you know if you didn't dive it? <failing to understand engineering !
    2.It's a very stiff car,so can't bump steer.< failing to understand real world has big bumps an you hit them at the very time you need the most control/also #1
    3.That's how it was done and it worked,so your wrong? <There is a big difference between some one got away with it by luck , then having control to save it. /also #1
    4. I have my own set up that way ,an it drives fine for many years,no big deal! <#1 an #3

    There are more excuses,that can be found by reading this hole thread from start to were ever the end will be.
    The hope is some will learn from it,but I know also a few are far too hardheaded. Some of that is also hot rodding.
    So have fun,get smarter if you can let yourself,keep having fun.
    Just reflections
    picnicpark.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  27. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I hear you Dana.
    I liken it to folks building a nostalgia drag car and wanting to get away with a poorly designed roll cage or rollbar because that's the way it was done 'back when' and its traditional and "lots of people survived crashes with one like that".
    Until they didn't.
     
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  28. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    We never hear back from those that did not survive.
     
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  29. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,217

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    And what a blessing that is !!!
     
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  30. Pete Eastwood
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,324

    Pete Eastwood
    Member
    from california

    Well said, Thanks Dana . . .
     

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