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Technical Dropped steering arms...what to do?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gearheadbill, May 29, 2018.

  1. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,318

    gearheadbill
    Member

    So first let me say that I already 100% agree with the notion that stock forged Ford spindles with integrated steering arms are always choice #1. But that is not always an option. Enter aftermarket spindles. These spindles don't have steering arms attached.

    Many people have for years successfully used the forged 'thru-bolt-attaching' Chassis Engineering dropped steering arms when needed. I have never trusted the integrity of the rounded cast/forged blind hole style arms. Thru-bolting seems almost a necessity. Arms cut from plate work fine but allow only for the use of a heim joint or similar connector....not a tie rod end. I guess an early Ford ball and socket-style could be made to work with plate arms.

    What do we do now that CE is out of business? Has anyone stepped up and bought the rights/tooling etc. to continue making these?
     
  2. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,173

    Budget36
    Member

    Speedways sells them...unless they were supplied by CE?

    But regardless, didn't Heidts buy CE?
     
  3. Got mine from Pete and Jakes.
     
  4. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB


  5. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

  6. hotrodfab32
    Joined: Mar 23, 2010
    Posts: 83

    hotrodfab32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have used Pete and Jakes and Magnums with blind holes. Both are forged and given the same material should be stronger than through hole. Much more material around the bolt areas. I run a bottom tap in the holes to use the longest bolt possible and use blue locktite and tighten them correctly. SoCal are stainless.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    town sedan and olscrounger like this.
  7. Weedburner 40
    Joined: Jan 26, 2006
    Posts: 954

    Weedburner 40
    Member

    I have used Magnums for years without issue, just make sure the bolts tighten before they bottom out.
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  8. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,318

    gearheadbill
    Member

    Thanks guys! All is not lost. Appreciate the info.
     
  9. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Rich B beat me to it, Chassis Engineering INC is up and running in it's new location after Heidts bought them and moved the whole works to Illinois.
    From going though the catalog they are adding a few things at a time back to the line as they progress.
     
  10. dmdeaton
    Joined: Nov 25, 2017
    Posts: 502

    dmdeaton
    Member

    Just bolted mine up from Speedway. I agree with OEM stuff, but I am new at this stuff.


    IMG_8893.JPG
     
  11. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,778

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Heidts is continuing the CE line.
     
  12. gearheadbill
    Joined: Oct 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,318

    gearheadbill
    Member

    Good news indeed!! CE had too many useful items for someone not to continue the line. Thanks again.
     
  13. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    https://chassisengineeringinc.com/wp-content/uploads/product_images/AR-2121S.jpg

    ar-2121s

    are they forged with eyes both sides, why does it appear that the single eye arm has had it removed

    can the arms be bolted so they are on the wrong spide / spindle - right on left, left on the right spindle, and the arms bent to get the ackerman back....

    the double eye then being on the correct side for RHD
     
  14. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,396

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I recently got a flyer from Pete&Jake's that they have purchased the CE program for the 47 inch forged dropped axle and the forged line of CE steering arms
     
    X38 likes this.
  15. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Here is stock right side spindle with original arm still attached and right side CE dropped arm bolted on.. Notice you WILL have to heat and bend even if used in LHD, they are close but not quite there, the rod end stud is at quite an angle and looks bad when bolted up, looks close to binding when in full lock [turn]..I say heat and bend to suit the RHD [?] or just to put rod stud as verticle/position as stock.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  16. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    seb fontana

    thanks@@@

    do me a favor please kind sir!!
    does that bolt on arm actually sit in the other side? I don't suppose it will make any difference as it will be tweaked.

    so... 37-41 spindle, wheel base 112'' - -35-40, thos arms 'should' be on exactly the same path as stock to rear axle centre, hmm

    pps.
    Please let me know if it is at all possible for you to bend me up the set you have there and ship to London England, and IF you take pay-pal
    PLEASE
    thanks
     
  17. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    could the bolt on arms be correct considering the axle has been narrowed from a stock 37-41 king pin distance
    are they designed for a 47 inch king pincentre
    and a 112 inch wheel base
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  18. Dug out a spare set of arms and took a look at them. Each arm is definitely a different forging. The bolt bosses are longer on the spindle side. The end of the right arm is as forged; while the left arm is sanded round (why ?); never saw that CE offered these in RHD configuration.

    We have heated and bent them to clear Lockheed plates in the past; don't see why they could not be bent for a RHD application.

    In reality; it would seem the easiest and maybe smartest thing would be to use the arms as is and use a "Jeep" tie rod end on the left spindle and trim the extra eye off the right spindle.
    P3270001 (Medium).jpeg P3270002 (Medium).jpeg P3270003 (Medium).jpeg P3270004 (Medium).jpeg
     
    kadillackid likes this.
  19. Your photo made me wonder about the orientation of the eyes on my coupe; had to dig out an old picture; but while they have a pitch to them; they are not as far out as your example; tho it does look like your axle has pretty strong positive camber (or maybe it is just digital camera distortion). If I had been bending stock arms the last step would have been to level the eye.
    IMAG1312 - Copy (2).jpg
    arm right (Medium).jpg
     
  20. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    Thank you so much Seb and Rich for posting the pics, brilliant.

    Sebs pic with both arms differing eye positions. - GREAT
    I think this is due to the stock 37-41 axle king pin centres being 48.5 inches
    when dropping and narrowing an axle the king pin centres become 46.5 -for example
    the spindle comes over an inch per side
    the ackerman triangle changes
    the chassis engineering position is in the correct position - I reckon...….
    especially considering the steering arm is now dropped
    -NOTES ON ACKERMAN
    ------------------------------------
    I have seen the diagram
    [​IMG]
    I think this is the bamboosiler, where do you actually take the measurement from?
    1. as this pic, the top of the king-pin centre
    2. through the tie rods ball centre, to the centre of the king-pin, note here is the steering arm has been dropped from stock, so it must make a difference if using an extra drop steering arm, as the kpi moves over as the arms is dropped - dropped 2 inches from stock or more, king pin angle/inclination.
    3. where the rubber hits the road.

    so, IF its where the rubber hits the road, your ackerman is halfway up the car, might be why you get the death wobble

    what do you all reckon?
     
    Texas Webb likes this.
  21.  
  22. I had a pair of the cheap Speedway arms with the blind holes, the threads were very sloppy and I decided I couldn’t live with loctite and hoping for best. I bought a pair of bolt thro arms from SoCal.

    Very pleased I did. They are super stout and you have the security of high grade Allen bolts that you can torque up. They were less than £100 delivered to my home in Chester, UK.

    Needed some minor grinding to work with my F1 brake set up.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  23. @nobby I don't think you need to be overly concerned with getting your Ackermann exact; close is good.
     
  24. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    I think it flukes out.
    take a 37-41 spindle, from a car with 112 inch wheel base, 48.5 king pin centres
    fit the spindle to a 32 ford with a 46 inch king pin centre IMG_20200328_155850[1].jpg
    the ackerman bisection comes forwards 6 inches, 'maybe' without anyone realising, its may actually be perfect!
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  25. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    I think you just bought those from me?
     
  26. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    so you fit a 46 inch wide axle in a 37-40
    as the above pic with the chassis engineering 35-40 steering arm a smidgers over, it might be correct
    dotted line!
    IMG_20200328_161146[1].jpg
    I am sold, the guy must have known what he was doing, to manufacture these, the spindles and the axles as a combined lot specifically for a 112'' wheel based 35-40
    damn, I have a 46'' wide axle, these are designed or a 47''

    p.s. I have overlaid an actual 'super' and 'so' low drop steering arm, the eyes differ, the pot has corn starch
     
  27. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,671

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    I believe that that precisely correct Ackerman is a good thing to strive for, but consider that GM trucks all use the same spindle and steering arms from short wheelbase to long wheelbase. Apparently the engineers at GM consider close to be good enough.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  28. A 46" axle is really narrow for a fat fender car. Just saying.
     
    jaw22w likes this.

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