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Hot Rods Hemi/Story/ Builld

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hombre, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member

    Happy it worked out for you. :)
     
  2. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Major set back yesterday. When I was installing the cam and lifters the lifters were very hard to slide in ( slide for lack of a better word) A couple of them were so tight I had to use a wooden hammer handle to leverage them down to the cam. Well I say to myself " Self these will be OK and after a while they will just wear in and be fine" . So Button everything up and am just waiting for a few more parts before I fire it off.

    Those damn lifters are bugging me though, I know that isn't right and I also know that they probably won't wear in and if they do why should they have to do that? So I take the hardest one out knowing that it was so hard to get in that I will probably destroy it getting it out. Much to my surprise it did come out after a little cussing and grunting. I had to use vice grips to get it out and the grips didn't put a mark on that lifter, lucky? So I mic the lifter--Specs say it is supposed to be .904 the old lifters that came out were .902 and the new ones are .9035. Hard to think that .0015 is causing all of these problems, but I guess it is. Got to be dirty lifter bores, I hope. So back apart it comes. The gaskets are not easy to find for a 65 Year old Hemi but they are out there, but damn I just hate this crap.
     
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  3. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,724

    George
    Member

    The lifters spin in the bores, so out it goes. The early 361-413 lifters are what I use.
     
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  4. paul philliup
    Joined: Oct 3, 2013
    Posts: 213

    paul philliup
    Member
    from ohio

    I used small block LA rollers in mine. I'm also using beehive springs they make the head look big IMG_20180824_130637873.jpg up
     
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  5. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No Paul, There is nothing you can do that doesn't make those heads look big. Hell they are big.
     
  6. Hombre,
    Yes,,,if the lifters are tight and don’t spin,,,,they will fail ,,,and take the cam lobe with them !
    Remove them and see what it is,,,,probably some crap in the lifter bores,,,,maybe some old dried grease,,,lube of some kind .
    The lifter diameter is fine,,,Mopar is .904,,,,, you might get lucky and spray some brake cleaner in there and get the bores cleaned up .
    As long as they spin,,,that is the key !

    Tommy
     
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  7. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    You CAN'T run lifters tight! You will wreck the cam and the lifters, 100% guaranteed. They won't wear into the bore before they destroy the cam.
    You need to pull them out and look really close at the lifter bores. If they are rusty at all, sorry, but you need to tear that Hemi back apart and hone those bores with a small brake cylinder hone on a drill, using light oils or diesel to lubricate and flush the honing process. Hone to .0015 clearance. Then clean it all really well and re-assemble. If the bores are not rusty, then you are lucky and can clean the bores of dried grease, or if needed find some smaller lifters with .0015 to .004 clearance. Good luck!
     
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  8. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Both of you guys were right. I do not have a clue what type of assembly lube the original builder used, or how along for that matter that they used the stuff. What I do know is sticky dried and hard. The rod and main bearings both had this crap on them, some lacquer thinner got rid of it on those, I don't know why I would be surprised with the lifters. I tried ever concoction I could think of to clean the lifter bores no luck. So the motor came apart today.

    I guess I am living right too. As when I pulled the heads there was a lot of crap setting on those brand new pistons, didn't look like carbon but it was hard like that. it had to come from the combustion chambers. I had turned the motor over by hand many times in setting the valves, the only thing I can think of is this stuff fell out then while the valves were open. These heads will have to go to the machine shop and get redone, in the meantime I have another fresh set of 354 heads that I was going to use on another build sometime in the future. The have new springs, guides all stainless steel valves and are ready to go.

    Yesterday when I decided I was going to have to do the lifters I Was pretty pissed at having to pull this motor apart. Today I am glad those damn lifters were stuck, if that hadn't of happened I would have fired that puppy off with those very questionable heads and maybe done some real damage. This way all I a out is a little frustration and a few gaskets.

    Joel, I did have to use a wheel cylinder hone to clean these lifter bores, and man what a pain in the butt that was. The hone cleaned up the bores just fine, the problem was I would push that damn thing in there a little two far, the stones would open and man I tell you there is no way to get that thing out the way it went in. Lucky it was a Lisle hone and they come apart, so I would screw the shaft off and then with magnets ( did you guys know that ever damn thing inside that motor is magnetic?) and needle nose pliers fish around in the bottom of the block until I could get a hold of it and start again. I mean there are only 16 lifters, and I know I must have fished that hone out of that block at 22 times.

    But the deed is done, the lifters are now damn slippery in there bores. Short block is back together and now I am waiting on gaskets for the timing cover, oil pan, and heads.

    Thanks for your comments guys...
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
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  9. Great job Hombre ,
    As much as it might have seemed a burden,,,it actually turned out to be a blessing !
    Saved that new cam and lifters,,,,and by cleaning the bearings,,,,it saved the crank for sure .
    Is should turn out really nice man,,,you lucky dog !
    To find this fresh rebuilt Hemi with all those new parts in it,,,for a very good price .
    Sounds like a blessing to me !

    Tommy
     
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  10. paul philliup
    Joined: Oct 3, 2013
    Posts: 213

    paul philliup
    Member
    from ohio

    Glad to hear you took it apart better to fix it now than later
     
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  11. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks guys, Yea as I look at the engine setting in the shop today I am both sad and glad. Sad that just the day before I had it almost ready for the run stand. Glad that it is not ready for the run stand as I truly believe that was going to be a disaster waiting to happen.

    291, I am not to sure about that good price. Oh at the time it seemed like the deal, but as I look at what I have spent just at Hot Heads alone and then counting all of the other bits and pieces. Not to sure about just how good of a deal it was. Now with that said would I do it all again tomorrow knowing what I know today, how much money? How much Time? Simple answer for me to that "Hell Yes I would!!!"
     
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  12. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,724

    George
    Member

    Hemis ain't cheap!
     
  13. Come on Hombre,
    It’s a Hemi .
    I know you had to purchase several pieces,,,,timing cover, water pump, oil pan, gaskets and the rest ,,,But,,,from the details in your first post,,,it was a bargain .

    Go ahead and admit it,,,you Love it,,,,LoL !
    Like George said,,,Hemi’s ain’t cheap .
    And besides,,,,,all the machine work and the new custom pistons,,,rebuilt rockers .

    It makes me jealous just thinking about it .
    I only have two Hemi’s,,,,my 426,,and my Desoto,,,, I guess I will keep on the lookout for another one,,,before you snatch all of them up !
    Lol,,,,,congratulations,,,,you got a good one .

    Tommy
     
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  14. woodsnwater
    Joined: Apr 4, 2016
    Posts: 502

    woodsnwater
    Member
    from North Al.

    That little model A ain't going to know what hit it! Especially the front spring. HA!
     
  15. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 7,175

    73RR
    Member

    Good story.

    .
     
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  16. hemihotrod66
    Joined: May 5, 2019
    Posts: 968

    hemihotrod66
    Member

    My old 392 bullit..It has 20 over Aries Pistons with 990 pins, shot peened stock rods with ARP bolts,,, 4 Bolt mains,,,525 lift 284 duration Crane roller cam..old Crietz Engineering gear drive,,HotHeads aluminum heads with stock adjustable rockers,,,,Hotheads 2 inch full tube headers with 3.5 inch collectors ,,,.6.71 GMC blower on an old Edelbrock manifold running 6% under on 6.75 compression motor with 2 750 CFM Carbs...Hope later this year to install some Molnar H beam rods... 392 Hemi 1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  17. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very nice there guy, it should get down the road just fine...
     
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  18. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Going back over already covered ground these last few days. Got the new gaskets in Friday and spent the weekend buttoning this motor back together. That means readjusting all of those lifters, thank goodness for the HAMB as "Loudbang's" advice hint really does work and saved me some grief, Thanks Bang!

    Now I have a few days work getting this engine run stand ready for a Hemi. I had loaned this stand to "Woodsnwater" ( Keith) to fire up his Hemi that is going into his Model A coupe, and he had fabricated a set of motor mounts for the stand, that alone saved some time, Thanks Keith! The way this stand bolts up to the rear of the block has always bothered me some, well once again my buddy Keith comes up with a simple solution. Even though this engine is getting a Turbo 400, Keith says why not bolt a manual transmission bell housing to the adapter/ block and then bolt directly to the bellhousing were the transmission would normally go. I guess that was just to simple for this old Marine to get his mind wrapped around. Simple solution. Now I just need to fab up a mount for a radiator and get this engine mounted. Planning on firing it up soon there after.
     
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  19. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,056

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Keep in mind that with the extra length of the bellhousing, there will be more strain on the engine stand.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No Beanscoot not that kind of stand ^. It is a dedicated engine run stand. Engine mounts at the regular motor mounts on both sides, and then will bolt to the bellhousing at the transmission mounting surface. I actually believe this will be less strain on the stand itself mounted this way. Never in a million years would I ever even consider starting an engine on one of the stands like the one in that picture you posted.
     
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  21. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,824

    4tford
    Member

    Nice find and build. Nothing like a hemi in old iron. mine is a 392 in my 40ford.
     
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  22. woodsnwater
    Joined: Apr 4, 2016
    Posts: 502

    woodsnwater
    Member
    from North Al.

    3:28 am? I hope your up early. Not staying up that late!
     
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  23. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 663

    coupe33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just following because I know nothing about Hemi's
     
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  24. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,056

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Good to hear that you will not be using that stand pictured, but that was the stand pictured in your earlier posts.
     
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  25. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,724

    George
    Member

    Put "Hemi Tech Index" in search & start reading!
     
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  26. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's plenty good enough reason for me.
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can get a discount for a two-pack.
    IMG_20161204_164724.jpg
     
  28. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If that price tag is correct $1,800 for a Hemi core is not a bad price, not at all. I have five of them critters and I can honestly say none of them were that cheap, until this 354 came along.
     
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  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I got both, for $1200.

    The seller had a trailer full, in a down economy. He overestimated demand, and surplus income.
     
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  30. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Damn Gimpy that is a hell of a buy, you will make a little money on those one day that's for sure.

    Still working on getting this old Hemi ready to fire. Working on the run stand, and the rest of my parts came in today. Stuff like plug wires, lines for the remote oil filter, and the housing for the filter and the block plate. Just need to get it off of the stand it is on and install the adapter and flexplate and bellhousing and then blot it to the run stand.

    This virus thing has everything screwed up. While for an old guy I am pretty healthy, but I do still smoke ( a bad thing and the breathing problems with this virus crap). My other problem is my legs, they have just given up on me. I survived a very serious injury to my right leg on my last mission in the Corps, now after all of these years the joints have just thrown in the towel. I am not a candidate for replacement surgery as there is just much steel in there to make a that possible. So I live with that, if I can do it setting down then I am in the cat birds seat. My wife is the one I really worry about, while she also seems healthy she may have a problem that makes her susceptible to the problems with this damn thing. So if I get it she does as well. I do not and will not be the cause of her getting sick. So while I had several friends who were willing and able to help get this engine into my Model A and get the other engine out. I no longer can run that risk. So I either have to do it all myself, or wait until a time when it is safer to be around folks. I have waited long enough for this Hemi in my Model A so as soon as it's ready go in there it's going in there, if I have to do it alone then so be it. I hope a video of that will satisfy all those who were so willing to help.

    Like most of you guys never in my wildest imagination did I ever see this virus coming. It is a bad deal, and we all are just going to have to deal with the damn thing. Time will come when it will not be as big of a deal as it is today. But for now it is a big deal, my thoughts are with each and every one of you cats and your family's. Please be safe and keep those close to you--CLOSE TO YOU!!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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