Technical QC questions

Hi Guys,

I have a 1951 car that's somewhat off topic because it's foreign.
I have a decidedly off topic motor.

I'd like to marry them together with a Quick Change - and I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction.

The car is front wheel drive and previously had a longitudinal engine with a transaxle driving the front wheels. My new motor setup will give me plenty of torque and rev high enough that I'm planning on coupling it directly to the QC.

My challenge is that the front suspension narrows a lot right where the driveshafts pass through the suspension "cradle". I think I can use a IRS type QC but I need to find one that's as narrow as possible - in the range of 9-10" across the flanges. Is anything out there?

I'm happy to go into more detail about the whole project, but trying not to be too off topic.

Thanks for any help
Pete

 

A front wheel drive "quick change"??

 

Speedway Engineering sells quickchanges in two sizes, that are IRS.
http://1speedway.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=72

 

School me if I'm wrong - but I assume I can turn it around (not flip it) so the top remains the top but the driveshaft connection points to the rear.

I can run my motor backwards....

I'm looking to use the QC because it will (hopefully) give me a narrow diff and the ability to tweak the final drive ratio if I need to. Plus it looks cool as heck and is keeping with the era of my project.

 

The ring and pinion wasn't designed to run in that direction. It will move, but for how long at 80 mph I don't know. Early Ford banjo rear ends could be reversed I understand, but I haven't done it or know if Halibrand can be swapped. I have heard of Halibrand run upside down. I am a little intrigued with your project. I'm imagining a high revving sbc running thru a transfercase in a Saab at Bonneville.

 

Very interesting. Your starting to sound like Smokey Yunick .

 

If he runs the engine backwards, it should be fine.

 

Generally, gears don't care which way they are turning. However, some gear teeth have a steeper angle on the "drive" side than on the "back" side, and should not be used in reverse rotation, unless derated in torque capability. If the QC gears are helically cut (usually not), lack of a thrust bearing on the appropriate side would be problematic. Of course, if the transaxle has an integral oil pump, that would be an obstacle. I doubt that the ring gear can be flipped to the opposite side in a QC. If the pinion shaft has an inboard bearing, the ring gear would interfere with that bearing's support. This doesn't matter with a Ford, since the whole center section can be flipped. Hopefully, Pete's intended engine has marine (counter-rotating) high performance cams available, as well as starters, oil pumps, water pumps, etc.

I'm sure we aren't talking about a Saab here. I951s were 2 cylinder, 2 strokes; very rare in this country. Also, the engines were in front of the transaxle. Later 93s looked similar, were "slippery" aerodynamically, and have been run at Bonneville, but I think with just small engines. The posted picture is definitely not Saab. It seems to belong to a car that looks to be a channeled 1933 Ford 4-door Victoria with a bustle-back, n'est-pas?

I really doubt that a QC exists as narrow as 10". Independent QCs are typically designed to carry a differential, which results in having two short stub axles. These need fairly deep or double row bearings, to preclude "wobble". You can then convert to spools, but your still stuck with the same width. It would probably be possible to design/buildings a narrow unit, based on a spool; what's the project's budget?

It appears that this is purely a competition car. Since no gears, no reverse, would seem oval trackish, but I doubt that. Does direct drive make any sense for Bonneville, or drag racing with a fairly heavy car?

Since this seems to be a competition only car, I'm confused as to why it's imperative to utilize the original front wheel drive concept. I suspect the original axles are good for maybe 100 HP, therefore much of the original drive components will need to be replaced. So why not do it the easy way, and use rear drive.

Another thought -- I believe the original car did not have a chassis. Hopefully, the design skills are available to make appropriate changes to the unit body to accept the additional power being contemplated.

Using the one-finger technique, this has taken me too much time to write, to have a Monitor declare it off-topic. If it's removed, I expect to see all Fiat Topolinos, Anglias, etc., gone.

 

I've seen pics in old magazines of quickchanges mounted for front wheel drive on a four-wheel race car. I seem to recall something like Ivo's four engine monster. And I think that Halibrand cast special housings with the R&P on the other side. From the outside they look the same.

And that digs another memory deep from the banks. I also recall hearing about a guy who bought a Halibrand center at a swap meet only to notice on assembly that it was a backwards casting. Made for a front drive, but the seller didn't mention that and the buyer didn't notice. The small bit of aluminum around the pinion gear is the only thing that is different.

 

He says he can reverse the rotation of his motor so any common q.c. or diff. will work.

 

Pete,
There are reverse rotation QC cases and ring and pinions.
I’m not at the shop right now but I believe that one can be built within your 10” limitation. The trick is to get a differential in that narrow of a case.
Is a diff necessary? How much torque? How much traction?


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

I built a dirt latemodel with a BB Mopar installed backwards (poor man's reverse rotation) back in the 80's. Modified the Frankland QC's pinion support so that I could flip the spool and put the ring gear on the other side of the pinion, never had a problem with it.



Grant

 

I am almost done building a Winters based reverse-rotation quick change center section.

Winters makes reverse rotation ring and pinion gears. The housings are a little harder to come by.

I can get retired racer ones, cheap. This will now take a ring gear, on either side,

 

Wow! How interesting and unique! You must be a mechanical magician! I would love to have seen that- Very Cool!! (Talking about Grant's backward engine late model)

 

Marty Strode: Thank you. I reached out to Speedway Engineering on Friday. Hopefully I'll hear back from them. They're not too far from me so I may just call in and see them.

GearHeadsQCE: <250HP. I'll send you a pm with more info.

Weedburner. That's cool as heck man.

Thanks guys. Its not a Saab and not a competition/speed record machine (I wish). I'm not trying to be mysterious - just respectful of the forum rules. I appreciate the mods leaving this up so I could get some knowledgeable QC help!

 

Bought Halibrand QC cases from Chet Fillips in Texas[early 80's]that had the pinion support milled out completely so he could run reverse rotation engine in asphalt super-modifeds,I ran them normal rotation no problem.

 

here's a four wheel drive sprint car that ran on dirt in our area for a while-note the quick change center in the front grill opening

 

When I start putting the small pieces together, into bigger ones, I will put up a link to my backwards engine early model.

I will likely catch flack, if I post pictures here.

 

Here's a pic of the car I built after the backwards engine cars (I built 2 of them). Same Frankland rear except I switched it back to standard rotation for a home built 4 rotor Mazda rotary engine...



Here's a link to the 4 rotor car's webpage, more pics of it there... http://grannys.tripod.com/4rotor.html

Grant