4 months ago I sold an original 1932 Ford hood to Robert Powers ( [email protected]) it was advertised as having excellent sides and tops needing work. I offered to send back for refund. Instead he put in claims with PayPal and credit card. They just decided in his favor so he keeps my hood and the $550! Amazing SCAM!!!!
This crap happens time and time again. If I sell something over the internet, I only accept a USPS Money order or a check with the understanding that nothing ships until it clears and I have the cash!
Since you posted his email address rather than a user name, I'm assuming he's not a HAMBer. And we're only hearing one side of the story. Admittedly though, Ebay has it's perils as well as it's pluses. I have no idea how to pursue this further.
Had a similar experience once with Ebay but got it worked out finally. We assume (bad word) that people are honest when dealing with them. Unfortunately that is no longer the case in many instances.
As posted in the other forum.. I am surprised PayPal gave money back WITHOUT confirmation of shipping back. Again I would CALL Paypal and dispute since NO ship back info
You have to be careful anytime you deal with people you don't know. There can be pitfalls with any payment method, for sure USPS money orders are no where near perfect and the fraud with them is very well known. Not every time for sure but they "ALSO" can be a problem. I have purchased from our classifieds many, many times and have never had a problem not once. For me personally I will not send money any other way than Pay-Pal, this offers me protection, there is also protection for the seller. Contact Pay-Pal I just bet it is not as one sided as you think it is. And as Old Man said there is always the other side of the story.
Correct! I buy a lot of stuff off the classifieds on here but I only deal with (like the mob says) "guys that are known to me". Alliance members, lots of posts, years of membership, etc. In HAMB we trust, all others pay cash.
Something is not right here. Pay Pal doesn't refund for items not as described without proof of the item being returned unless returning the item would violate a law. 5.2. Return of Item to Seller When the Buyer files a Claim for PayPal Buyer Protection because the item received significantly differs from the Seller's item description, the Buyer is required upon request of PayPal to return the item at his own expenses to the Seller or to another person or address as requested by PayPal during the Claim process, as well as to provide appropriate proof of delivery. The proof of delivery needs to contain at least the details required in the PayPal Seller Protection Policy for a proof of delivery of the Seller. PayPal will not request such return if there is the reasonable suspicion that the return of the item would result in a violation of existing law. PayPal reserves the right to request further documentation from the Buyer to support the Claim. The Buyer has to bear any costs that may arise from this request.
I had a similar problem a couple years ago, but I was the benefactor.......so from my experience there must be more to this story than what was relayed. In my case, I purchased a machine to make hydraulic hoses.. It was a professional machine and very TOP heavy. It was an Eaton Weatherhead machine. The price was $2000 and that included the shipping cost. The seller made a POS crate on a pallet. It was shipped to a friend of mines business because he has a forklift. I wasn't there when the machine arrived but got there just after the freight truck had left. The machine had beaten the poorly cobbled crate to pieces and was laying on its side on the pallet. I took pictures but had no signed document from the truck driver. I contacted the seller and told him about the damage and that I could get the replacement parts shipped to me for less than $100....and I would install them myself for free. He immediately went into a**hole mode and said he wasn't responsible. Said we must have damaged it while unloading it. Unloading consisted of lifting the pallet with a forklift, backing up about four feet on a smooth paved parking lot and sitting it down. He said there was no way it got damaged during the appx 1800 mile journey in the freight truck. Tried to be nice and reasonable but he had a f**k U type attitude. Contacted Paypal and they told me to get a professional estimate to repair the unit.......appx $340 instead of my $100. At that time, I think a high dollar transaction was anything over $800. The caveat with that was that they don't negotiate partial settlements.......its all or nothing. Anyway, after multiple attempts by me to contact the guy and tell him all I wanted was $100, I gave up and let Paypal do its thing. It was actually more about the guy being an a**hole than the money. One day Paypal contacted me and said that had copies of all my emails which showed I had tried to be a nice guy about the whole thing as well as the estimate for repairs.. They were deciding in my favor and refunding ALL of my $2000. I told them that I would ship the machine back to the guy but he would have to pay the shipping fee. They said "You don't understand.......you don't have to do anything". Still, wanting to be fair, I sent the guy another email and told him if he would pay for shipping I would send it back. Never heard from him. So I got to keep the machine. I ordered the repair parts and fixed it. The guys at the company that gave me the estimate for repairs were some nice "down home" types and didn't charge me anything for helping me out. The guy who did the estimate was a fan of Ray Stevens.....the streak. He had an old VHS tape on his desk and told me how much he liked him. Since they had refused to let me pay them for the estimate, when I got my refund from Paypal, I put $60 in an envelope (1 hrs labor) and a brand new dvd of Ray Stevens I bought off Ebay. Drove by their shop and went inside. Told the guy I couldn't stay but wanted to thank him again for his help and handed him the envelope. Told him to buy lunch or throw it in the small change drawer.....and left before he could say "No". My point here is that Paypal worked with me to offer the seller every chance to do the right thing and he refused. I'm sure he didn't want to pay return shipping, but other than that it was pretty idiotic on his part. Every case is different, but from my point of view Paypal gave the seller every opportunity to do the right thing and he only got screwed because he was an a**hole.
The seller is responsible for return shipping if they send you an item that doesn't match its description, is damaged, or doesn't perform as advertised. They are the ones who bear responsibility. In the case of the Weatherhead machine mentioned above, shipping costs to return the item could be anywhere between $250 and $500 (or more) based on my experiences. It would be wrong to expect me to be responsible for returning a damaged item. I would have been responsible for paying to get a repair estimate or other documentation. Again, my claim was a "high dollar" claim, so maybe they handle that differently than low dollar claims. All I can do is relate my actual experience with a claim.
This scam happens all the time on that sight. It's a game and ebay nor paypal will help. Buyers who know the game will get away with it every time they try it. The community posts there are full of these type scams. It's always the high number items that sellers have stolen from them with the help from ebay and paypal.
I prefer selling here on the hamb or at a swap meet, granted it takes time to do so but I have found that the vast majority of the members here honest, you can always check out their profile if your unsure. I hate it for you getting screwed out of the money and your hood, just proves the guy is a sob and will continue to screw people over. Hopefully you posting his email address someone can be spared dealing with this guy. HRP
Bought a vintage Sun Tach off eBay that was in pieces when it arrived. Simple process with eBay, took pictures and recieved a refund.
More than one friend that sells on Ebay has told me that same thing. The buyer told Paypal there was a problem and Paypal gave them the money back and said keep the item. What they also told me was that Paypal never requested the money back from the seller. The first time. So Paypal ate the first loss. The second time Paypal requested the money back and told them they were not getting their money for sold items for 60 days. For a probation period.
Not sure if I understand the OP. Is the OP out both the hood and his $550, or did PayPal pay the purchaser another $550? So far, the few low dollar items I have purchased from HAMBERs/ BARNERs has been without incident and items were as claimed. Hope I continue to have such transactions here.
Sounds to me that he is out on both counts. No money and no hood. Seems that there are at least two other posts on this thread that say the same thing. If this is true (why would they lie) than PayPal is no better than any other method for the seller when it comes to scams. I’m just going to wait for the swap meets I guess, besides it’s a lot more fun that way.
PayPal usually freeze the funds in your account as soon as a dispute is raised. (To avoid them paying out their own money if they find in the buyers favour). The money is then repaid from your account. I had similar with a buyer (albeit in the UK not USA). The same evidence of posting and delivery was enough for the postal service to conclude it had arrived safely. PayPal looked at the identical evidence to conclude that it hadn’t. Result was no item returned, seller refunded from my account and no refund from the postal service as as far as they were concerned it was delivered safely. Buyer gets to keep the item and my cash !
I guess to cover your ass, you not only need to describe the item, but take a shit load of pics, then periodic pics of the packing process. Then again, might be best just to ask the buyer "how do you want me to pack it for you? Then charge accordingly. Swap meets looking better all the time
Pretty sure it's the pictures show to PayPal/Ebay. I had a mistake with a seller - as he showed a picture with description....and that is not what I was sent. For the record - he said complete as the picture - when what he sent was not as pictured or complete. Did send package back I'm pretty sure on my dime.
Even if they make him return the hood, you will probably get a package of the same size and weight as the hood but filled with his garbage. You won't win. Been there.
When shipping things there is usually insurance available for a reasonable price. Include that in the shipping costs you charge and take pictures of how you packed it. It has nothing to do with PayPal and you have documentation that they determined there was a problem with what you shipped. If someone files a claim against you, request a picture of the damaged item from the claim that was filed or from the buyer before the claim is resolved.
In my case he paid with a credit card through PayPal, put in a claim with his credit card company. After 4 months they said he can keep his money! PayPal said sorry they can’t do anything about it. I had offered to take hood back with a full refund, he did not answer and put in his claim. A well planned theft of merchandise.
Well this is pretty sad. It stinks that you got ripped off, but I believe karma is A bitch. It will get him sooner or later. Snowman
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