Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Widening wire wheels

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by sdroadster, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 420

    sdroadster
    Member

    tub 001.JPG I recently brought home the remains of a 29 Phaeton. I'm in mock up now, and have installed a 40 rear end that measures 59 1/2 inches flange to flange. The Model A rear end measured 57 inches. I had envisioned using 35 Ford wire wheels, but they are 4 inches wide. They look fine for the front, but appear skinny and too far away from the body in the rear. I would like to add and inch or so to the inside of the rears to better accept 700-16 Firestones, and close up the gap. Does anyone know of a person that bands wheels to increase their width? Here's a picture from the rear of the car. Thanks View attachment 4569909
     
  2. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I used Danny at Bruce's Rod Shop in Texas to widen my 32 wires on the inside 2 inches. I had them do the complete job which included finishing the welds. Not cheap but nice.
     
    brokenspoke likes this.
  3. Pico Wheel Service (http://picowheel.com/wheel-widening-or-narrowing/) comes to mind. I believe I have good things about them but will leave it to you to research them as it has been many many years. At least they are in the same time zone as you.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  4. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,188

    clem
    Member

    Any qualified welder, mechanical engineer type with a few clues.....
    That’s what I did, and I also widened them inwards, so that the hubcaps protrude the same amount front and rear.
    Widening them outward doesn’t look quite right to me, and the hubcaps disappear, although that is how most people do it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2023

  5. HuffDaddy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 443

    HuffDaddy
    Member

    I had a set of '35 wires widened at Weld Craft Wheels in Livonia Michigan.
     
    dirt t likes this.
  6. ratreo
    Joined: Jan 24, 2010
    Posts: 76

    ratreo
    Member

    “Does anyone know of a person that bands wheels to increase their width?”

    I’d suggest that you try calling
    “Rallyamerica”. (559) 322-2128

    They created a pair of 7 1/2” wide “Bubb“ 1935 Ford 32 spoke wire wheels for me. Be forewarned, it was expensive.

    Part of the fun was it took 6 rims to make the two that I ended up with. They load a rim into a engine lathe. Then using a part-off blade/cutoff tool they carefully cut off the outer rim width leaving the center section that contains the spokes along with the inner rim section. They cut a “weld prep” chamfer onto the remaining spoke section. They pull the wheel from the chuck, turn it around (clamping onto the center spoke
    section) and cut off the remaining inner rim width. Once again they cut the weld prep. This leaves the center (spoke) section intact.

    Now they take another complete rim and cut off the outer wheel lip/rim edge leaving as much material as possible. They weld prep the outer rim “blank”and throw away the rest of this wheel.

    Again they chuck up another wheel and cut off the inner wheel lip/rim leaving as much material as possible. Once again they toss the remaining pieces

    Now they fixture the three sections together checking that everything “dials in” in each axis and tack weld it together. Once again they check roundness and runout, if it looks good they finish weld it together. If there’s an issue they will address it till everything is ok.

    Once welded they check that the wheel runs true and will potentially clean up the exposed weld joints. They may leave the welds alone on the inner (tube) side choosing not to weaken the weld by cutting it down.
    All of this work is for (one) complete wheel. Now you go back and start all over again...

    I started with (6) excellent rims so that I knew that the final parts would be the best product that I could get. I hated throwing away good pieces but that’s what it took to get the rim width that I wanted.

    Would I do it again? Nope, what a pain in the ass (and a lot of money)
     
    Genes12320 likes this.
  7. Check with True Spoke wheels for new made.They look a lot like Ford wheels,and you can have them made to your specs.As always not cheap at about 350 bucks per wheel,but hey that car isnt going to be cheap to build.
     
  8. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    Got these, made by "vintage , vintique ?" bent spoke wires this fall...
    they use the same spoked rims and weld in the bolt pattern you ordered...
    15" x 4.9" and 15" x 8" not what you want but they are making them...
    . green wheels 4.JPG green wheels 5.JPG
     
  9. Eric Vaughn in the San Gabriel valley. Sorry, I don't have a number. So-Cal speed shop may have a number.
     
  10. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    I have to wonder if a little creative measuring/machining in the areas pointed out by the arrows wouldn't allow for the complete installation into a larger (16/17/18") rim that was also wider. Getting a big/little look with wires and saving some money in the process. Might even leave the welds exposed for a homemade look rather than trying to conceal them. Don't know if it would work since I don't have any wire wheels to measure.

    green wheels 4.JPG
     
  11. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 420

    sdroadster
    Member

    I met a restorer who said he had a Phaeton that wasn't worth fixing. It was cheap, and it had paperwork. I'm afraid I will never out grow hot rods... tub 002.JPG
     
    Von Dago, 2Blue2, Tman and 6 others like this.
  12. hotcoupe
    Joined: Oct 3, 2007
    Posts: 588

    hotcoupe
    Member

    Maybe use a late '32 rear end (57") and a pair of 4 1/2" KH wheels.
    Tom
     
  13. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,454

    oj
    Member

    Don't even think about Stockton Wheel in California.
     
  14. 3banjos
    Joined: May 24, 2008
    Posts: 480

    3banjos
    Member
    from NZ

    What spring have you got resting in there, out of interest.
     
  15. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 420

    sdroadster
    Member

    The rear spring came from 100% Matt a vendor here on HAMB.
     
  16. Those are nice looking body pieces for a car that isn't worth fixing. Sure won't find anything like that around here!
     
    daylatedollarshort likes this.
  17. doliak
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 166

    doliak
    Member

    Ya that sure looks like a tough fix I can come on out and take that scrap off your hands if you need the space haha

    Sent from my SM-G935V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    '34 Ratrod likes this.
  18. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 420

    sdroadster
    Member

    I'm 73 years old, and have never outgrown Hot Rodding. I saw this add on Craigslist and decided to call. The seller was a very nice man, who was technically over his head. He asked me several times if I was sure about this purchase. He said "you know this is almost not worth saving, it's so much work, and they make reproduction bodies"
    A car like this Phaeton is a blank canvas. Anything you do to it is an improvement.. Here' a picture of the other end of the car. I disguised a Mercruiser motor, and installed an early drive line, with other vintage stuff . tub 003.JPG
     
  19. doliak
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 166

    doliak
    Member

    That's a bitchin tub you've got going I dig it alot!

    Sent from my SM-G935V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  20. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,394

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    A guy called Jason, I think was his name from Bear Metal Kustoms in Morro Bay CA used to do wheels and had a hot rod shop as well.
    He seemed to produce good quality work and was likeable enough.
    Maybe worth checking him out
     
  21. holdfast1987
    Joined: Jan 27, 2022
    Posts: 1

    holdfast1987

    Shop Doors are closed , sold the wheel company years ago .
     
    fiftyv8 likes this.
  22. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 420

    sdroadster
    Member

    And I got discouraged and sold the tub. Life goes on
     
  23. 2Blue2
    Joined: Sep 25, 2021
    Posts: 378

    2Blue2

    At least this thread has some closure...
     
  24. Welder59
    Joined: May 31, 2011
    Posts: 4

    Welder59
    Member

    Hello,
    I have been narrowing and widening wheels since the 80's. I have only had one request to do a set of '35 Ford wires. The customer wanted 15 x 4's up front and 16 x 5-1/2's in the rear. I removed the center hub with the spokes attached and welded (tig) all 32 spokes back into a different outer band. The welding itself took over 3 hours per wheel. To insure that the wheels were round I built to fixtures. The first was to cut all the spokes on the hub "round". I mounted a die grinder on a set of linear bearings to cut each spoke as I rotated the hub on the axle I had it mounted on. The second was to hold the hub and spokes parallel to the outer band so the wheel did not have any run out. It also was adjustable for changing the backspacing of the wheel. The way I did this was to mount the rear hub from a Jeep with an AMC 20 rear end on a piece of TGP shafting that would raise and lower in another set of linear bearings. This was all mounted in the center of a small table where I would place the outer band. I know that it was a lot of work to go to before I even got to the wheels themselves but it worked just as planned. These wheels have been on the road for many years with no problems. And yes, it was expensive.
     
    Garpo, Big Al, Budget36 and 2 others like this.
  25. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Yeah, I asked a wheel guy in San Jose how much to band a pair of Kelsey-Hayes 16".
    His answer: "Plenty, and that's only an estimate!"
     
    clem and Budget36 like this.
  26. Ever consider Cadillac wire wheels from the early fifties? I had some I was going to blast and paint. They make adapters to early Ford hubcaps.

    Charlie Stephens

    s IMG_7608.jpeg IMG_7609.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

    Budget36 likes this.
  27. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I've had 2 pairs of 32 Ford 18 inch wires widened about 2 inches on the back side. I spent the money because I wanted a certain look that I can't get with new wires. (to many spokes) This was a costly procedure and may have been my last? I like the way they look when combined with 16 inch 35 wires on the font.
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  28. Retired
    Joined: Jan 4, 2009
    Posts: 328

    Retired
    Member

    I have 15 inch wires on my model-T.
    The fronts are 6 inch wide.

    DSC09082.JPG


    The rear wheels are widened out to 8 inch.

    DSC09084.JPG


    Back in the 1980's, I worked at a machine shop so I had access to a lathe big enough to put these wheels on.
    I cut the front lip off the wire wheels. Then I put up a regular 15 inch steel wheel and cut the back lip off it.
    This back lip was machined out so it fit onto the front of the wire wheel and they were welded together on the inside.

    Here you can see a line going around the wheel close to the spokes. That is the seam between the wire wheel and the back lip of the other wheel.

    DSC09085.JPG
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  29. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,798

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Lonnie Gilbertson and I built some narrow ones, using VW rims. He did the machining and I did the welding. IMG_3274.JPG IMG_3275.JPG
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.