Technical Y block Ford build info

I guess this is a "calling all Y block guys" thread. I'm going to start rebuilding another 292 Y block for my Model A this summer and I looking for ALL the tips and tricks for building a Y block Ford.

So this is not a thread about me building my motor but more of a "what to do" thread thing. Here are some things I have seen or heard of, what do the pros say?
1) We have all heard of the poor oiling to the rockers with the Y block, is it best to plug off the drain tubes? I have some books that say the drain down oil lubes the timing chain on one end and dist. drive on the other end. So is it a good idea to block off the drain tubes?
2) I have also seen that drilling holes in the valley area right by the lifters so that oil can drip down on the cam, it that necessary?
3) drilling a small hole .060" in the front of the block into the oil passage going to the front cam bearing so oil will shoot out to the timing chain.
4) the one thing I really want to do is come up with a PCV system, Lots of info on this here on the HAMB but by valley cover does not hat the hole foe the draft tube with the baffle that would be under it. Has anyone made a baffle to spot weld under the valley cover?
5) I have a '57 dist that has the breaker plate that rotates on ball bearings that is in good shape, is it as good as the one with the pivoting breaker plate? I'm not talking about the Load-o-matic dist I know I don't want that one.

Anyway that is a start, any ideas? tips?
Thanks

 

google for all of the HAMB threads on Y blocks. Google for John Mummert

 

I'll chime in with my .02. Most of the yblock oiling problems were caused by running the non detergent oil Ford recommended or poor customer maintenance. I've run mine with the tubes and with the tubes pinched off without any cam problems. It was a fresh engine build so it had good oil pressure. I've never drilled extra holes for oiling but I suppose it wouldn't hurt. On the PCV system I've both made a baffle and used a valley cover with a road draft tube for it. It's just easier to start with one that has a baffle already there. I believe the ball bearing dist. plate is supposed to be better. I've had both and they worked fine. Best thing I ever did for my yblock ignition was to convert it to a Ford Duraspark ignition. Best place for information is Mummerts www.ford-y-block.com web site. He lists all the best parts and mistakes to look for on yblocks. There's also the yblocksforever website too.

 

While the overhead oiling system problems on the Ford Y is overrated, it does show up occasionally on new engine builds for a variety of reasons with the current crop of soft cam bearings being at the forefront of the issue. Those soft cam bearings in tandem with increased valve spring pressures simply pushes the center grooved cam journal into the babbit thus pinching off the oil flow in the groove and shutting off the oil supply to the top end. Fixes for this include using a cam bearing with harder material (Engine Tech CC508 works for this), making the groove deeper in the center cam journal, or adding a groove for top end oiling behind the cam bearing. That groove can be put either in the block or on the backside of the cam bearing. Another issue with the top end oiling concentrates around the installation of the center cam bearing where only two of the holes align with the oil holes in the block. All three holes in the cam bearing must align with the three holes in the block. You would be surprised at the number of Y's I pull down with a overhead oiler only on one side of the engine and upon tearing down the engine find that the center cam bearing was simply installed wrong.

The overflow tubes are controversial. For the stock engines I keep them in place as these guarantee a faster flow of oil to the top end thus slowing down any sludge that can build up. The overflow tubes also keep the shafts completely full of oil and eliminate the air in those shafts which would speed up the oxidation of the oil. On the flip side of this, when doing the roller tipped or bronze bushed rockers, I do prefer to eliminate the overflow tubes to increase the pressure at the rocker arms. If targeting for 0.002" rocker to shaft clearance, then you will get a pressure build up at the shafts. Any more clearance than this and the oil flow gets excessive at which point oiling restrictors in the rocker arm supports are required to slow down that oil flow. I prefer to not go less than 0.078" for those restrictors.

The extra holes in the valley do nothing for increasing oil to the lobes and lifters. I have dynoed those engines with a clear cover in place and at rpm oil is actually gushing upwards from those holes from the cam tunnel area due to air pressure being generated in the lower end of the engine. From a performance standpoint, those holes are beneficial as they help free up the air movement that's generated by the pistons going up and down.

On those ball bearing breaker plate distributors, just check that the ball bearing itself doesn't have worn spot where there may be a rough spot or kink in the movement. Other than that, they are good distributors as Ford used them in the Y's, FE, and MEL engines from 1957 thru 1959. The vacuum advance chambers are different from the later style so they are getting harder to find. Straight leg vacuum chambers for the ball bearing distributors and curved leg chambers for the later model pivot style distributors.

Using the valley cover from any 1958 thru 1964 Y will have the built in baffle at the back that's suitable for use with a PCV valve. The hole size is already the right size for one of those Dorman PCV valve grommets and the only modification required is to eliminate that 1/4-20 threaded stud that standing in the middle of that hole. Be sure to plug that remaining hole in the baffle with a 1/4-20 bolt and nut as that hole will be sitting directly under the installed PCV valve. If the budget allows it, John Mummert sells an aluminum cover with PCV capability with a cast in baffle and the aluminum covers do eliminate some of the oil leakage problems associated with the oem tin covers.

I trust some of this helps. Ted Eaton.

 

Yblocksforever site will answer every question. Do everything Ted Eaton or Tim McMaster tells you to do. Get an engine manual for Y-Blocks and unlearn SBC’s before you start. No matter how cheap you get a 3-2 manifold if you want one, don’t buy an Offy. Good luck

 

What did this baffle look like. I'm thinking a sheet metal box about 1/2" deep and an 1" or so square spot welded to the bottom of the valley pan. I would also think it would have oil drain holes at the edges not under the area that the PCV valve would sit.

Anyone have a valley pan that is off of the motor and can post a photo of it?

 

What about the "steam holes" in the block and head? The last Y block I put together the gasket set said to drill holes in the block between the two center cylinders.

 

This makes me think any oil coming from the rocker drain tubes would not be needed for the dist. drive, sounds like there is a lot of oil flying around in there. I have a set of rebushed rockers on a 292 that is in the car now and plan to use them in this motor. I have the drain tubes welded shut with a 1/16" hole drilled through so some oil can drain out. Guess I should just block them off?

 

I have the books and have spent time on the different Y block sites for a while. I did not know who Ted Easton until last week though. Thanks for the tip on the manifold !

 

Found some photos of valley pans, found this one that I have never seen maybe the end of the tube went to the air filter? don't know

 

Here ya go;

 

The center cam bearing is narrow and you get internal oil leakage. You can install the wider front cam bearing in the center. and leave the original in the front. Use a grooved cam. radius the 90 degree turn thru the head. I wouldn't plug the drain tubes. you want the oil to circulate and get filtered not dead end in the rocker shafts. retrofit a PCV.

 

Thats a 63 or 64 truck valley cover for a factory PCV.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's what he asked for

 

thanks, It looks like just a shallow box thing, I guess with no other baffles inside right?
About how tall is it?

 

Nope, Just the square box that has the opening to the front ,about 1" 1/4 high ; In the pic you posted the tube goes to the pcv at the carb.

 

mcTim has some good video's on you tube. This is part 1 of modifying the rocker arm's.. No oil dead end's at the shaft's.

 

Man, thanks for the help. Oh, nice looking Pontiac in your avatar. Parents always had Pontiacs and have many memories riding down to N.C. in a '64 Star chief .

 

John Mummert, Ted Eaton, and Tim McMaster have all the Y-Block information you
will need.
Ernie

 

True I was just trying to get the final answers all in one place, maybe I should have done that on the Y block forum but they don't get much traffic over there.

 

IF you go for new pushrods, consider purchasing them from Smith Bros in Oregon. I purchased mine from Mummert and they failed in about 5 miles. John M told me that he wouldn't use them but no refund. Rockwell hardness on Smith Bros was around 65, periodically checked by them and my machinist.

 

Thanks, I'm running the stock pushrods in the motor in the car I think they are the solid ones and it doe have a mild Crane cam in it, over 10,000 miles with no problem. You say they failed, did they bend? the tips fail? what happened?

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x2

 

The tips were too soft and mushed. Being re-purposed as yard art.

 

.......That sucks!

 

I see new info on the YBlocksforever page every day. All three listed have good info and will answer your questions. Ted and Tim are in the business of building engines and don't have every second to be on the phone. Ted is a one man operation and Tim is similar.
#1. The Ford V-8 54-64 is just an air pump needing a very few changes to remedy their shortcomings. Center cam bearing for oiling along with champhering the passage, correct placement of the head bolt lengths, marks on the timing gears in the correct place ( not a SBC), and the rear main seal which is most problematic of the items.
To me every thing else is correct machining, measuring, and assembly like every other engine. Good luck.

 

I should spend more time over there, thanks. But I was talking about the HAMB's Y block page that doesn't get too much traffic. thanks

 

There was a run of pushrods where the ID of the cup was a few thou too small compared to the rocker adjuster ball diameter, they would break quickly.

 

Yeah Jimmy,
That cam gear timing location will trip anyone up ,,that’s new to it.

Mcmasters rocker arm work looks super,,it will pretty much fix the top end .

Tommy

 

the timing chain marks are not majic if you can read and follow instructions.more B.S.from people that do not or have never built one.