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Technical Any advice on how to fix this?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by flyn schlosser, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 257

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

  2. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 257

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    Looking to fix this . 32 frame previous owner used ladder bar on the outside. I have changed the rearend so now the go to the trans CROSSMEMBER. Looking to cut this out and repair .Would like a little advice on how to go about . Any advice is appreciated. About 5inches wide by 3inches
     
  3. harpo1313
    Joined: Jan 4, 2008
    Posts: 2,584

    harpo1313
    Member
    from wareham,ma

    Break out the grinder, start with a cutoff wheel . less heat.
     
  4. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,173

    Budget36
    Member

    Is it just welded to the frame? If so, grind the weld flush to the frame and bracket all around it, take a cold chisel and a 3 lb sledge after the weld starting at a corner.
     

  5. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,828

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    the first two pics could be fixed by using a tripod. :)
    3rd pic will require a grinder and assorted cutoff wheels and some grinding. looks like some rivet removal and hole filling as well.
     
  6. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,388

    Squablow
    Member

    I would grind the welds and rivets off and see how bad the frame looks behind it. It might just be some holes you can weld up and grind off and you'd be all set. I definitely wouldn't cut the whole thing out without seeing how it looks from behind first.
     
  7. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 257

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    I was thinking the same thing drill out rivets there is going to be a hole in the middle as well . I appreciate the reply..
     
    Squablow likes this.
  8. the only proper way is to remove the entire frame rail and replace with new. A patch is just that, a patch. And by definition a patch is something you do till it can be replaced with new. This site is dedicated to the restoration of hotrods. 30yrs down the road, when someone sees that patch on your frame, it'll be posted here in the thread about all the shoddy work the previous owner did, complete with pictures....
     
  9. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'd say that he got it right. Cut through the welds what they are and cut the heads off the rivets if they are rivets and take the cold chisel and BFH and see if you can pop it loose.
    Hopefully that sleeve is just welded to the plate and not the frame rail.
    Looking at it you may have to grind that plate off if it is welded to the frame in the center. The frame looks boxed so does that tube/sleeve go clear though the boxed section? That might add a bit more effort to the challenge.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,173

    Budget36
    Member


    Boo, boo...sorry, but might I ask, if it was yours and you did as I proposed, all you'd have left is a few holes to fill.

    Right?

    Okay, so explain to me how cutting it all out, makes a "better restoration"? Is not what you are proposing just a big effing patch?

    Hell, with your line of reasoning, may as well find perfect NOS frame rails and swap them in.
     
  11. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,148

    Rex_A_Lott
    Member

    I'd be more concerned with how it failed and why. Try not to repeat that part. Many different ways to fix that, depends on what you have to work with.
    Good luck to you.
     
  12. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 257

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    There was a ball joint in the center the treads where messed up so I cut it off. The best solution is I can get the plate ground off is to be left with the rivet holes and the hole for the ball joint.. it is sleeved but on the inside of the frame before it was boxed. I appreciate your response
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  13. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 257

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    It didn't fail just not using that setup anymore.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  14. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 3,818

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    Cut off wheel
     
  15. 1.Nothing at all wrong with the way you proposed.
    2.Didn't say better. Said proper. Which would you rather have? A patched frame rail or a replaced frame rail. And no, it's not a big patch, it's a replaced frame rail.
    3.On this we can agree.
     
  16. mickeyc
    Joined: Jul 8, 2008
    Posts: 1,363

    mickeyc
    Member

    A patch or a repair call it what you may. Metal work done properly is just that, a sound, reliable return to
    a serviceable condition. I see no reason to change an
    entire frame rail to change the engineering of that
    particular mount. It did not fail. Another design is just
    desired.
     
  17. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Folks section original frames to repair them all the time, or we'd all be runnin' repop frames.....
     
  18. Warpspeed
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 532

    Warpspeed
    Member

    You should be able to tell from the inside of the rail how much of the original rail is still there.
    As Squablow says, there may only be just a few small holes remaining after you remove that big ugly square patch plate from the outside.
    In that case, an angle grinder, a cold chisel, and some patience should leave very little damage to the original rail.
     
  19. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,173

    Budget36
    Member


    I agree, but not for something the OP posted. After he pulled the piece out, he'd have

    1. The frame rail
    2. Rivet holes to fill
    3. Center hole to fill

    Versus patching in a new rail section.

    Unless the frame rail is rusted/damage, there is no reason to bring the sawlzall/torch/plasma cutter out for this job.
     
  20. WTH o_O

    Its steel .. that's survived years of use .. with the same hole .. under load .. being pulled on torsionally with suspension bars.

    If the SOB hasn't folded over by now .. a properly welded & ground level "patch" ain't gonna' do it either.

    It'll be a quarter sized piece of steel. Fuggin' frame rail ? :confused: Sheezus' ... man !
     
  21. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,314

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    Like other have said , cut weld with cut off disc , to see the hole behind square plate, if a torch hole , then round or square hole on frame , make a replacement path same gauge thickness, weld in , grind / sand ,
     
    Hnstray and kidcampbell71 like this.
  22. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,216

    ekimneirbo

    I would start with the rivits first and get them out of the way. Grind the heads off and see if they can be driven out without too much trouble. If they resist, drill them and put a little little heat on them. See if they can be driven out again. If they still fight you, go ahead and drill them completely out.
    Then take a grinder and lightly grind the weld trying not to touch the frame. If you tack some steel strips to the frame around the welds it will help you not to grind the frame itself. When you have most of the weld ground away, remove the strips. Change to a thin cutoff wheel and you can control it better for removing the rest of the weld.
    You can just weld the holes closed or put a plate inside and weld thru the existing holes and weld the plate to the inside of the frame. This will help to insure that the frame is not weakened in the area. You may put boxing plates inside too, but for the most part the inner plate won't be noticible if you don't plan on it being a car show vehicle.
     
    loudbang, Hnstray and flyn schlosser like this.
  23. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 2,459

    6sally6
    Member

    Good job for a carbon arc gouge. Too bad most people don't have one at their disposal.
    Could use a wash tip on a burning torch. Wash that weld right off without putting a ton of heat in the frame. Have to know what your doing though.
    Cutting wheel right thru the weld bead (all the way around) You will see the parting line if you look carefully. Then get after it with a BFH and a sharp chisel.
    I'd hack the whole thang out and butt weld a patch in it and call it done. Lots quicker and once ground smooth nobody knows.
    6sally6
     
  24. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 257

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    Thank you
     
    alanp561, loudbang, Hnstray and 3 others like this.
  25. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 257

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    I like this idea thank you. It's not a show car.
     
    kidcampbell71 and Stogy like this.
  26. While there is no doubt this can be patched/repaired, the OP did mention it was 3x5" area. Last time I looked, most quarters were much smaller than 3x5". Also, the OP asked for advice. What he does with it is up to him. And to answer your question about the 'fuggin' frame rail'...., yes, I would replace it. While I'm capable of preforming the patch/repair work, I would not be happy knowing it was there. Sorry if I upset you. I didn't realize you were asking for advice also.
     
  27. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Flyn--
    I agree with this 100%. I have a friend near you in the scrap metal business. Send me your address and I'll have him drop by and pick up the old rails -- no charge!
    P.S. -- Be very careful removing the rails; I'd hate to see you damage your cross-members. ;)
     
  28. Please. Your opinion was stated. Let the thread roll without dramatics.

    Tie rod location hole, diamond shaped perimeter collar with compass point rivet locations. Just another day on the HAMB.
     
  29. Not rocket science, grind around weld and then check the “rivets”,maybe they are fake rivets to start with,like a lot are and nothing to worry about.
    All I see is assumptions,you won’t know what’s going on until you get into it.
    if you(the op) aren’t confident ,get someone who is to knock them off and patch for you and enjoy your car.
     
  30. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 4,128

    hotrodjack33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Even something as small as a 3"X 5" piece of steel can cause HAMB drama...sometimes it's like a friggtn' soap opera around here:eek::D
     

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