Hot Rods Chevy heads 461-462

@threewindaguy, in answer to your question, the Special High Performance (SHP) engine's from '64 up typically got heads with 2.02/1.60 valves. Hope this helps.

 

My 461X’s only had the #3782461 top of head,
The X was on bottom. It’s been 13yrs, dated 1962 and 1.94/1.60 ?

 

about 47 years ago I did own a set of genuime 202 double hump heads. Was told they wouldn't work on a 283. and all I had was 283's . Sold them to guy nicknamed Cherry Bomb for $50. Don't remember if they had a X on them.

 

Yes, I posted a pic earlier in the thread of what the X would look like. Its cast in, not stamped, and not next to the 461 cast numbers...

 

Exactly !!!!

 

I'm not confused and I'm not asking you to eat your words. But when something as ODD as that casting number is presented to you with the phrase, "Check these out kid! You probably won't ever see another set of these again in your life!" it kind of sticks with you. I was, and still am in awe of the oddity, and am diligently searching for pic's. to prove what I saw. Had smart phones been in existence back then, I would have taken a picture, and this would be settled. Yet, I am sure I will find one, I encourage you to search also. There is no way that could have been the only pair of heads in existence. It has to be documented somewhere. Thank You.

 

You won't find a real picture of a 461X head with the X following the 461 on the top side of the head.

 

Geeze...didn't mean to hijack this thread with all this crap, with one single letter..!

To put it simply, many years back I helped a friend while racing his C/ED in the NHRA, Division 7 circuit.
Now...sorry to upset anyone (ebfabman)...but YES...the "x" WAS visible with the rocker cover off of the head. NOT specifically the head off of the engine.
No, I do not recall (or even IF I knew) the years the heads were cast. I do know that even 35+ years ago, they were very hard to find.
And no...no photos..!
And also yes, as cast, they did, marginally...out flow the standard 461 head.
At the time, NO...cylinder head porting was NOT allowed in that class, at that time (unlike now). I was with my friend when he had two heads flow verified, one with the "x", one without. The"x" head won that race..!

Mike

 

Old wolf, if you'll do a google search for, "1958 Chevrolet Power Pack heads with an X on them", you'll see what I'm referring to, and the drilled/tapped bosses on only one end. Personally, I have never seen any 57 heads with a "X" on them; do you have the casting numbers? I can't find ANYTHING regarding 461 heads with an "X" beside the 461, and I've never seen them either. There also seems to be some confusion about combustion chamber size, ie CC, AND intake runner size; those are different, two different measures of size. There used to be a "Tech" section here on the HAMB, and that's where the fuelie head threads were by Fred Williams; I can't find a Tech section now (???). And, to really add to the confusion, there ARE some AMC heads with a large "X" under the valve covers (AMC 327???). I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Well Butch you certainly know you chevys. However I went and looked at my heads in the daylight. casting number 3731539 one has a date of G87 the other F267 no 58 in the sides near the X and no evidence that there ever was anything except that cast X. No extra holes drilled and tapped. I seen the 57 they came from a black 4 dr htp. I don't think my heads are anything special. just a set of extensively reworked 539 powerpacks. They have been ported and polished. larger valves CC ed and milled .010

 

No way to upset me. Maybe you saw an X under a valve cover...who knows?... but it wasn't a 461x. I've heard and read people swear a 461x wasn't real if the x didn't follow the casting 3782461 on the top of the head and can't be seen when the valve cover was removed. This has been repeated many times since the heads were made. This is incorrect. IT'S A MYTH. The X on the 461x head is in fact cast, not stamped, under the head. If a 461x head with an x following the casting number visible on the top of the head, under the valve cover, was ever made by GM, then there would be evidence of it. Period. As I said earlier, you won't find such evidence because there never was such a head.

 

This may have been what you saw, but there was never a "X" included in the casting number on the 461x head.

.

 

I would be curious what the date of that head is...

 

Very interesting thread so far, Since I was a teenager, and probably all of you, this was the most sought after double hump head on the junk yard market around here. we had a round track racer in western KY that would buy every one he could get his hands on. Assuming he ran his engines at a high enough RPM to get a return on the investment. After he blew a motor ,(or cracked a head?), he would let a set go for $175. He only bought 2.02 valve heads, or as he called them,(350 hp heads). Lots of folks ended up with a set of cracked heads and a good set of valves and springs, so I'm guessing the next step was to regrind a set of 1.94s and use the parts in the un-cracked heads I also remember the price dropping when the Dart heads came out, but by then, the big valve heads were like hen's teeth.

 

Another tidbit on casting #'s, on the underside where the "461" is cast in, if the number fonts are parallel to the length of the head, good indication it was an "X" head. If the fonts were perpendicular to the length of the head, most likely a non "X" head.

 

ebfaman -

Sorry, you were not there..! OR were you....?
Being that I graduated all the way thru college, I do understand what a number looks like..!
I also understand what the figures in the alphabet look like.
So, put together an alpha-numeric combination of figures, and YES by golly Batman...there was a 461x under the rocker covers on both of my friends heads..! He had three of them. Never found another before switching engine brands.

Seems that you just might not have seen EVERY single cylinder head that Chevrolet made and sold, despite your perceived (by you) expertise.

Mike

 

There were some casting snafoos over the years. This is a new one on a date code for me. Most date codes are for example:
B 10 4 which would be Feb 10 '64. Check out this pic... I 24 64 Sept 24th of '64 I had never seen a two digit number used for the year for head castings.

 

Should not be hard to find at least one real picture of what you say exist. You won't.

 

I agree. There were some oddities out there and some mistakes. I found the best way to identify a 461X head is to see the X on the bottom of the head and to CC the ports. 461's were notably smaller, by around 10cc's

 

Mike vv and 427sleeper, there is a difference between a pissing match and mature adults having a spirited discussion. I consider this the latter. You seem to give sound advice earlier with one major exception. You tell the reader "If you need to run iron heads, find a set of 461x heads..." Then you go on to say they are super rare and your recollection of them is 35+ years old, and the only ones you've seen are the three your friend had... What kind of advice is that??? Suggesting to find some 461X heads like you believe exist, is akin to telling someone if they need money, to go get the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I've read many times over the years that people believe that real 461X heads have the X as part of the casting number found under the valve cover. This is not true. It's an urban legend. It's been repeated enough through the years that people believe it's fact. Yes, there are anomalies, oddities, and mistakes. Anything is possible. But there was never a 461X production head as you describe. The reason I take the time to respond here is to set the record straight, as myself and many others who have experience with these heads know it. There is also the possibility that many of us are wrong. I invite being corrected. However, after a period of years of searching the country, trading for and buying every 461x head that could be had because of the racing rules we had, I sure would have run across what you say exist. It simply does not. Again, please accept my apologies if you can prove me wrong.

 

maybe im seeing things however that certainly looks like a X abet a lazy one but still a X?

 

True. I would consider this an anomaly or oddity. I have several sets left and have had many sets in the past and have never seen one like this. Found that pic on the web. Not a typical production scenario.

 

4 1/4-20 bolts on the head in question would settle the dispute, no need to pull the head.

Sent from my SM-G900P using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Lots of times we see stuff that we never knew existed. that was factory. Smokey Unick had a lot of that rare never seen or hear of chevy stuff.

 

Very true. However we're talking production items here. Again, you wouldn't suggest to someone to " just go find a ....." Especially if was something Smokey Yunick was in possession of.