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History NHRA Junior Stock

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by colesy, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. 1320 Fan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 211

    1320 Fan
    Member

    Winner circle. 1962 Winternationals C/S
    Note these are 2 different cars. coupe/bubbletop and E/S-C/S 853677 PA Cossey 61 CS.jpg
     
  2. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 143

    WerbyFord
    Member

    What I've been trying to figure out is what all cars Wiley Cossey and Bill Cossey drove during 1962.
    From what we see here:
    * Wiley drove a 1961 Chev #740 to C/S=11.90 win at Pomona (likely a 348/305hp)
    * Wiley drove a 1962 Chev #718to E/S=14.00 win at Pomona (likely a 327/250hp)

    Elsewhere on the results sheets from the year, I have
    C/S win at Indy, Wiley Cossey, 1962 ????? Chevy
    C/S ET record, Aug 62, Wiley Cossey, 1962 ???? Chevy 13.59
    C/S MPH record, Jul 62, Wiley Cossey, 1962 ???? Chevy, 101.23
    The only real fit to C/S=11.90 class for a 1962 Chevy is a 4-door 327/300hp.

    Why would Wiley change cars from his 348/305hp 1961 Bubbletop that won Pomona, to a 1962 4-door 327/300, an overrated and less competitive engine? Plus, it seems there's no evidence of this car anywhere, and positive evidence that Wiley drove that 1961 Bubbletop all thru 1962 to lots of points and wins.

    Is it possible that ALL the sheets have the year of Wiley's C/S car wrong, and it was really the same old 1961 Chev and not a 1962 Chev? His E/S car was in fact a 1962 Chev, so easy mistake to make. I'm inclined to assume so, but it's still bothersome.

    Also troubling is that at Pomona, Wiley's 1962 Chev C/S winning 61 Bubbletop is car #740.
    But at Indy, Wiley's C/S winner is car #987.
    Would the same car (assuming it's the 61 Bubbletop) have a different car number at Pomona and Indy?
    Or does that in fact imply that it's a different car?

    It's important to sort this out (for me at least) for history, because it seems that very few 327/300 cars won, likely because they were overrated. Not a put-down, Ford's "300hp" cars were similarly overrated. I can't see Wiley changing from a fairly honest 348/305 Bubbletop to an overrated 327/300 4-door, but if so, then it's so.

    Looking for memories or comments!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  3. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 5,051

    1934coupe
    Member

    Werby I have to admire you for your tenacity and diligence in researching these facts. It always amazes me how many knowledgeable people are here on the Hamb. I will not dismiss some first time Hamb users when they ask a question here because I now see that this place truly is a fount of knowledge because of you and everyone else that contributes. Thanks.

    Pat
     
  4. Unique Rustorations
    Joined: Nov 15, 2018
    Posts: 623

    Unique Rustorations
    Member

    X2!!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  5. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 143

    WerbyFord
    Member

    Well thank you both!
    I would also like to thank 1320 Fan for digging out these obscure pictures that clearly show the cars that won (too bad we cant find them all!). On the idea that the results Sheets could have the car year wrong:
    It does happen!
    The same Sep. 1962 Indy sheet where I'm questioning the year of Wiley's C/S car (62 or 61 Chev) also has the year of Carol Cox' car wrong:
    The sheet says Carol Cox won S/SA in a 1962 Pontiac, #973.
    Pictures (and other texts) clearly show her #973 car at Indy was a 1961 Pontiac, not a 1962.
    So, the Sheets DO get the car years wrong sometimes.

    BTW, I hear that win by Carol Cox was the 1st Nationals win by a lady.
    "They" weren't allowed to race by NHRA the year before.
     
  6. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member


    Yes she was according to an article on Hot Rod I read some time ago. After they tried a few ways to keep her out. O THINK I have posted a photo of her and the car in here.

    EDIT: here is the article from hot rod too long to post here.

    https://www.nhra.com/news/2018/carol-cox-nhra-s-first-class-winner

    If anybody is real interested there are several discussions about her and the car in here just go to the top of the page and put in Carol Cox then check search this tread only.
     
  7. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 774

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    Werby,

    I can resolve one of your variables fairly easily. Permanent driver numbers were not issued for Stock/Super Stock until the 1974 season when the current system that identifies the driver's home division in the first digit was introduced. Therefore, unless a driver entered early and specified a number preference, they got the number that NHRA assigned. As far as I know, at least in the Sportsman ranks, individual cars have never had a specific number, only drivers. That's the primary reason that car numbers are generally displayed on the windows, rather than on the paint.


    Also, the information that is put into print ahead of an event is based on the information provided by the driver on the entry form. Even in this day and age it is not uncommon to see drivers appear at an event with a car that doesn't match the one specified on the entry form. Likewise, it is not uncommon for mistakes to be made in small details such as the year of manufacture. The most logical explanation for the Indy question is that it was a typo or an out-and-out mistake.
     
  8. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 5,051

    1934coupe
    Member

    I don't really know if this is pertinent to the numbering but my friends ran my MG in Comp Elim. at the 64 Nats and used the number on the side of the car 321 and that is what NHRA used.
    Pat
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 774

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    I don't have any first-hand experience with the entry process in NHRA during the early 60's because I was running locally in AHRA at that time and just getting my feet wet even at that level. It is my understanding that entrants could request a specific number.
     
  10. 1320 Fan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 211

    1320 Fan
    Member

    Winternationals 1963 H/S
    Back when hard work and some ability could make up for lack of funding. 880529 PA 1963 Pomona HS Fisher & Glover.jpg
     
  11. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 143

    WerbyFord
    Member

    In the results sheet I have for 1963 Pomona, there is no H/S winner listed. Did NHRA yank Gary's win cuz the whitewalls were non-stock or what? I forgot if Gary recounted this story already -
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  12. 1320 Fan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 211

    1320 Fan
    Member

    Gary told me after he saw this they got dq'd right after the photos for rear tire size and never even got to tear down. If I come across a final class photo maybe we can give proper credit to the winner. I will keep looking. BTW Gary said he had never known of this photo until now.
     
  13. Terry Bell
    Joined: Apr 21, 2016
    Posts: 189

    Terry Bell

    And reasonable AND affordable rules for stock !
     
  14. Werby, You left yourself open for comments LOL
    In 1961, there was only one style of Chevy two door hardtops..Generally referred to as a hardtop car.
    In 1962, the Impala had the new formal hardtop. The Bel Air used the 61 rounded hardtop roof , which was also used across the entire 1961 GM lineup.
    Sometime thereafter, people started referring to the BA ht as a "bubble top, in order to differentiate between the two models. Lately, "bubble top " has become a buzz word for the BJ auction crowd . I've seen it used a lot for the 61 models, including most of the B.O.P. cars, and even for the 60 ht style . People seem to love to say they own a bubble top car.
    I don't believe this is historically correct.
    But hey, you're a Ford guy so you get a pass this time.
    Thanks for reading.
     
  15. 1320 Fan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 211

    1320 Fan
    Member

    Found a possible shot of final H/S run at Pomona 1963. Now if someone (Werby?) can identify the #663 1959 Chevy proper credit could be given. And lets all "believe none of what you hear and half of what you see". If no winner listed, they both may have been tossed. 880006 PA 1963 Winternationals HS final 663 winner.jpg
     
  16. rumblegutz
    Joined: Aug 29, 2008
    Posts: 662

    rumblegutz
    Member

    "Now if someone (Werby?) can identify the #663 1959 Chevy proper credit could be given."

    Possible typo as the 663 car is a 1960.
     
  17. Chuck Norton
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 774

    Chuck Norton
    Member
    from Division 7

    A dual disqualification is a distinct possibility. Confirmation might be found in the Hot Rod Magazine report on the Winternational race, probably in the April or March issue. They listed class winners more completely than any publication with the possible exception of Drag News.
     
  18. Uncle Albert
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 650

    Uncle Albert
    Member

  19. Terry Bell
    Joined: Apr 21, 2016
    Posts: 189

    Terry Bell

    I have talked to several this past two weeks and to a man (and woman) they have decided to stop running NHRA stock and just bracket race plus run a couple of class races in the NMCA in the Nostalgia Muscle car class and the Stock and Super Stock combos. A few have said this will probably be their last year of racing stock and have been looking at maybe the S/G and S/ST classes if they race NHRA at all. At least IF stock and S/S go away we know who caused it. It was fun while it lasted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  20. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member

    posted by swi66 in the vintage thread Mr Ruff

    Looks like the Canadian version grille swi66 vint.jpg
     
  21. wuga
    Joined: Sep 21, 2008
    Posts: 563

    wuga
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Canadian Meteor running out of Mt Hope Ontario near Hamilton
    Warren
     
    Bowtie Coupe, Torkwrench and loudbang like this.
  22. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,592

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

  23. 1320 Fan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 211

    1320 Fan
    Member

    Sonny Bryant Pomona 1971 370934 PA Bryant Pomona.jpg
     
  24. Junior Stock
    Joined: Aug 24, 2004
    Posts: 1,891

    Junior Stock

    Sonny Bryant’s 56 survives and is for sale.
     
  25. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    The Sonny Bryant 56 has an old B & M Zig-Zag shifter in it; those were "usually" used with Hydros. Is there a Powerglide in the car, or a Hydro for "fun"? Any idea how much for the car? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  26. Terry Bell
    Joined: Apr 21, 2016
    Posts: 189

    Terry Bell

    I thought Sonny's car ran with a 3-speed stick back in the good days of stocker racing !
     
  27. Gary Glover
    Joined: Jun 19, 2009
    Posts: 171

    Gary Glover
    Member

    It did.
     
  28. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    In the video of the current car, it obviously has a B & M Zig Zag shifter (automatic) in it. 2 X 4 "265". Someone has done their own thing with it. I looked it up by Googling, "Video of Sonny Bryant's 56 Chevrolet Junior Stocker". It's the top left, You Tube video, and is fairly short, but on the interior scanning shot, the shifter is obvious. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    chryslerfan55 and Bowtie Coupe like this.
  29. 1320 Fan
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 211

    1320 Fan
    Member

    Sonny was actually the west coast 3 speed wizard in those days. Always a good problem solver of things mechanical. Today he can provide you a nice crankshaft.
     
  30. Junior Stock
    Joined: Aug 24, 2004
    Posts: 1,891

    Junior Stock

    Yes the car currently has a hydro but still has the 265 I have been told.
     

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