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Projects Hillbilly Model T speedster (attempt #2)

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by hillbilly4008, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,799

    flatford39
    Member

    Is that 39 40 Ford fire truck??? Or is it a wrecker??? Sure would like to see more pics of that one.
     
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  2. Sorry I missed this! For some reason I did not get a notification (or I may have missed it.) I’m glad you messaged me. I’ll get you the info this weekend!
     
    chryslerfan55 and hillbilly4008 like this.
  3. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Its an old fire truck. Cool piece, ill get better pics next time im there. That early 40s ford truck is 4wd
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  4. "Mommy, I want that red fire truck! Daddy said I could have it!!" LoL
     
  5. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Some quick measurements. If i wanted to keep the stock Model T wheel base and run the Essex axle i would need to extend the front frame horns 16" +/-

    I don't know how i feel about that. Having the frame stick way out in front on the grill like that.

    I may shorten the wheel base a bit by moving the front axle back 6 inches or so. The bottom of the engine is nice and flat, clearance shouldn't be a problem.

    Thoughts?
     
    slv63 likes this.
  6. That A with the open end bumpers is no doubt an AR, which means it's got AR fenders, the holy grail!
     
  7. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    I removed the T assembly and mocked up the Essex assembly. Wicked drop, i dont see myself flipping the springs under the axle in the future.

    Now i need to focus on wheelbase. In stock T form it was 100". However, to keep it there i would need to lengthen my frame 16 or so inches. Which in my opinion would look stupid as hell.
    20200107_163046.jpg
    20200107_162306.jpg

    To make it look right i want to tuck the axle back underneath the engine a bit. By doing so i would have to compete with the rear shackle mount location and the trans crossmember location. Not a big deal, but that affects the wheelbase by roughly 5 inches. And also affects how long i need to have my frame horns...
    20200107_162854.jpg
    20200107_162605.jpg
     
  8. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    For the rear i plan to reverse the spring eye, remove a leaf or two, and bend the main. That should net 4"-5" of drop, and i wont have to mess with the frame.
     
  9. Pete Eastwood
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,324

    Pete Eastwood
    Member
    from california

    I wouldn't move the front axle back. keep it in the stock location or mover it forward just slightly. Move the rear axle forward to shorten the wheel base, you'll have a better looking / balanced car . sprint car 2 - 16 - 14 005.jpg
     
  10. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 721

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    I agree with Mr. Eastwood, for what my opinion is worth. Could you take advantage of shortening the rear to Z it, as well? That might be the easiest way to match the drop you have in the front.
     
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  11. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Pete i posted this same query on FB and you responded. Your running an Essex frame with T rear crossmember correct?

    Could you post a pic of the front of your car? Perhaps another pic from above?
     
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  12. Pete Eastwood
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,324

    Pete Eastwood
    Member
    from california

    I don't know how to do a thread search. . . . Check out my thread " Late 1920's Sprint Car " here on the hamb lots of build pics
     
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  13. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    This is where shit gets expensive. $70 at the local hardware store for just the bronze bushings and the castle nuts...

    Luckily I have a chunk of 5/8 stainless rod left over from another job. And material for the frame bushings.

    Im on the hunt for a pair of Model A frame horns to mount the springer on. 20200108_163842.jpeg

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  14. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    So I did a thing today...
    20200110_131227.jpg 20200110_131748.jpg
    Surprisingly for being 99 years old everything came apart with very little persuasion.
    20200110_132552.jpg 20200110_135406.jpg 20200110_133225.jpg 20200110_133730.jpg

    ...and right about here is when everything went FUBAR
    20200110_140550.jpg
     
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  15. Nuts!... you could always go quarter elliptic :p
     
    hillbilly4008 likes this.
  16. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Ill just leave that side off...:rolleyes:
     
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  17. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    This is the route I will most likely be taking. I've been on the hunt for a junk A frame for a few weeks now. If all goes well I will have the horns next week.

    As of right now I'm dead in the water till I can source the frame horns and another T rear main leaf spring.

    I have an A rear spring pack here, but its nowhere near being what I need. Thoughts of using what I have, and incorporating it as some funky monoleaf setup have crossed my mind. Then I realized that wasn't going to work. Then I considered some quarter elliptical type setup....

    A buddy of mine may have a rear T spring on a stalled project of his, I may have to do some bartering...
     
  18. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    T stuff is every where. find your local model t club and they will know some one who has a pile of stuff
     
  19. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    I put a feeler out, told them what i need. Waiting to hear back.

    Your right, they're around. There is a group of enthusiasts pretty close by. I gotta make time and hit up one of their shop nights.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  20. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
    Member

    Mock up that Essex axle using T Front Springs, think an addition of 12 inches or so to the front may be needed. Bob
     
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  21. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Bob, your right on that 12" +/-. I can't really do an effective mockup till i have those frame bits. I really dont want to make them, i could but don't want to. I would rather use the Ford parts, i think it will just look more genuine in the end. If that makes sense to anyone...

    Same with the rear suspension. I dont want to mess with anything till i know where the front will rest with everything tacked together.

    Also it has been brought to my attention that those are not Essex springs on that axle. I still intend to use them, im all about using what i have. but will most likely be removing a few leaves from each side.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  22. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 650

    guitarguy
    Member

    I could measure how far my A-frame horns stick out of mine if you wish. But I agree with others, I don't think id push the front axle back. I'm not building a 3 springer like you, but I pushed my axle forward 4" --- but needed to to get the drop in the frame.
     
  23. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Thanks for the offer! Im going to wait till i can get my frame bits though. Not only do i not want to waste your time, but i really can't do anything till i have something in my hands.

    On the wheelbase... i still have no idea where I'm headed with that. I appreciate all the suggestions, and am taking everything into consideration. Don't be offended if i end up doing the total opposite...

    Bob's BOBtail is going be at 88". I'm almost certainly going to be above that mark.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  24. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 650

    guitarguy
    Member

    Well, no time wasted, And I appreciate the consideration of that. I figured a quick measurement was in order before it was buried in snow again this afternoon.

    So I chopped off some Model A horns to what I felt just looked right. no measurements really taken, just chopped them where I felt it looked good and I didn't have a bunch of cracks to deal with and weld up. Which leads me to believe they were chopped off just in front of the crossmember as that's were all the frame cracks were. But take look in my thread for the visual.

    From the front edge of the stock T chassis to the end of the end of the A horn, is 14"
    From the front side of my new straight front spring crossmember to the end of the A horn is 9.5"

    So your 16" really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. But digest it all in and see what you come up with, I'm not going to be mad to what you do, it's your car. I just wouldn't pull the front axle back further from stock. You could also use a shorter trailer axle leaf spring too. Just food for thought. Both my axles are pushed forward on the chassis.
     
  25. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    I've decided I'm sick of waiting to find the model A frame horns. I'd have to modify them a bunch anyways. I started carving these out today. If all goes well i will have then tacked on tomorrow.

    20200122_172753.jpg

    This pushes the axle back to about a 96" wheel base. Just far back enough so the hand crank clears the axle, but also far enough ahead so the hand crank will clear the rod that will mount the springs to the frame.
     
  26. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
    Member

    ^^^ Like that, and you won't have to listen to people pointing and saying, "Look, he has Model A Ford frame horns on a 1920 Speedster". :rolleyes: Bob
     
  27. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 650

    guitarguy
    Member

    Hey, I resemble that remark......
    But I *think* it depends on the time frame the build is for too. I'm shooting for mid-late 30's era.
     
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  28. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    At this point I'm not going for a very specific time period. "pre-war" is all that I'm thinking when it comes to this build.

    I've gone back through this thread and now realize my typing skills are horrendous, and my sentences don't make sense. Its that damned auto type stuff i use on my phone. I'll try and keep a better eye on that.

    Looking for input on what steering column to use. I'd need something with the hand controls for the T engine, and a steering arm that comes out the side. I've got a Ross box, but it's not pre war, and the column isn't set up for the levers( obviously it could be modified) Would a model A column work on a T?
     
  29. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    Progress.

    Hoping to have the front all mocked together later on today. Then onto shackle mounts... 20200123_130430.jpeg 20200123_130938.jpeg 20200123_131718.jpeg 20200123_132306.jpeg 20200123_132316.jpeg

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  30. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,924

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

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