Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Early hemi purchase

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Shack31, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Shack31
    Joined: Sep 29, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Shack31
    Member

    All, I have an opportunity to buy a 1951 331 hemi out of a newyorker and a 276 hemi out of a 1954 desoto firedome. I can buy both for 300$ each or 500$each should I opt to get the attached transmissions. I have a 1931 5window that I "think" I would like to put a hemi in and my thought is that I could sell one of the two to pay for the other and have a free core.
    I think the 331 would be the one to keep, so the questions are:
    1. Is the 331 the one to keep?
    2. Is the 276 worth 300$wo tranny or 500$ w tranny?
    3. Could I get 600$ for the 276
    4. Could I get more for the 276 w the tranny?
    5. What are things to look at on both before buying?
    6. You would put one of these in your coupe instead of an LS right?

    I have not seen nor laid hands on either yet. I do not know if they turn and I do not know what kind of transmission they have. I am assuming all is stock as they are still in the original vehicles and are atleast covered by a hood as far as protection goes.
    Thanks!!
    Jeff



    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 14,811

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    What's an LS?




    The Chrysler is an extended block(nothing wrong with them)
    The Baby Desoto is nice too.The Transmissions are worth nothing except to a restorer.... and worth very little.

    Do it.
     
    73RR, HEMI32, Moriarity and 9 others like this.
  3. Two things.... the Chrysler will have the extended block which may make using a good transmission more involved and ...two....the Desoto is very limited in available rebuild/hop up parts. New cams for DeSotos are non existant.
    But, I think that those are good prices. Like stated above, the trans are just scrap. I would use the Chrysler, it has a lot of aftermarket parts available.
     
    LOU WELLS, loudbang and Jeff Norwell like this.
  4. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,287

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I got my 330 Desoto for free and I still spent $5000 building it. I'd say pick one, leave the transmission, and get after it.

    Oh and @Jeff Norwell , LS are the initials for Luke Skywalker and may have some connection to Galaxies (far, far away) and (millennial) Falcons. A Ford thing evidently but not in this sector of the universe.
     
    73RR, alanp561, HEMI32 and 8 others like this.

  5. Shack31
    Joined: Sep 29, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Shack31
    Member

    So just grab the 331...because it has more support right...expensive support but still support!

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    VANDENPLAS and Desmodromic like this.
  6. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    Are you running no hood sides ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  7. Huge money pit. :)
     
    Jeff Norwell likes this.
  8. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 1,136

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    Shack31 where are you located? I'd say buy both and sell the one you don't use even if its only 100 more than you paid you knock some off the one you keep. If you're like some others of us with Hemis you'll end up keeping both. Bandit, I thought LS might be short for Lasalle.
     
  9. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,287

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Call Hot Heads and ask them their opinion based on parts availability.

    @56don is correct, I had a cam that came with it and had it re-ground. Bored 40 over and custom slugs at 10:1 were a long time coming and weren't cheap. Hot Heads made the aluminum intake and provided most internals as well as pulleys, front cover, balancer, brackets, headers, high torque starter, etc, etc...you get the idea.

    I mounted a Dodge A518 behind a Hot Heads adapter that worked slick. Shoved it in a 41 ford truck I'm building. I like the way it fits my engine bay. Wall to wall Desoto.
    upload_2020-1-7_15-29-41.png
    Keep us posted @Shack31



    I was going to go with LoneStar "Were not just doing it for money...were doing it for a shitload of money!"
    Which fits well with the explanation of why we build cool motors instead of whatever is cheapest.

    Yeah, money foolishly spent always puts a smile on face...at long as the charge card isn't maxed out.
     
  10. Shack31
    Joined: Sep 29, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Shack31
    Member

    I don't know yet...will it stop me from being able to?

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. Shack31
    Joined: Sep 29, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Shack31
    Member

    I'm in north Mississippi...

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  12. Shack31
    Joined: Sep 29, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Shack31
    Member

    @ Bandit Billy was that a 276 that you put the 518 behind in the truck or was it a 331?

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  13. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You need to do some home work before you buy either of these engines. I realize it is a Hemi and what that means, I have 5 of the damn things. On the 331, if it is indeed a 51 engine it will for sure have the extended block, these provide some problems when it comes to fitting a tranny. There are adapter out there but the extended block is a real pain to deal with and will cost another grand or so in adapters and fitting issues. Forget about the original transmissions, they are cast iron, and not only heavy like 250 or so pounds but will for sure need building and then they may not be up to the job.

    The pistons in this engine (331) are now probably have a compression ratio of 7 to 1, not really what you are looking for in a performance engine. Pistons are hard to come by for the 331 unlike the 354 and 392 which the pistons are readily available for. If you want anything approaching performance you are going to need to bump up ,that compression ratio to at least 9to1 and 10 to 1 would be even better. That means a set of custom pistons, and that means almost for sure a set of custom forged pistons. For those we do have a few outlets. Here on the HAMB we also have 73RR a poster and something of a Hemi guru. You could speak with him about everything you need as well as Hot Heads. Between those two you will be able to find everything you need. Those pistons are going to be right in the neighborhood of another grand, maybe a little less but in that area.

    It is not cheap to build one of these engines, hell a simple set of gaskets runs $225. You also need to find out of these engines at least turn over. You will not believe how much of a pain in the butte it is to get a Hemi apart of it does not turn over. The converter alone will send you to confession more than once trying to get it off if the motor does not turn over.

    Lot of problems "COULD:" await you. On the other hand there is nothing like a Hemi and I mean nothing...
     
  14. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,287

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @Shack31 its a 330 tall deck Desoto
     
    loudbang likes this.
  15. BrandonM13
    Joined: Jan 22, 2019
    Posts: 12

    BrandonM13



    I felt that converter pain on my first hemi . Absolute nightmare!
     
  16. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    Depends on width. A guy north of me, has a '31 coupe. Has a 354 and a 270. The 354 is too wide but but the 270 fits so he can. I have not researched if there is a difference between the 276, 291 etc. DeSotos. I had a '40 Plymouth could with a 291 and fit great. Totally different then the A .
     
  17. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    If they are running engines, that you can drop in and run as-is, then they are a pretty decent deal. But on the other hand, and as much as I love Hemis, and want to see you get a Hemi in your car, I hate to say this, but you need to be realistic. If they aren't a good running engine, you will spend many times the purchase price to rebuild one. These are low end Hemis from a desirability and value standpoint. The asking prices on the hemis are about what they are worth as good cores if there is nothing wrong with them. Not much profit potential. If they have any cracks, if they have been sitting outside filling up with water and are stuck, they are worth scrap $. The transmissions are worth $0.00 each.
     
  18. Shack31
    Joined: Sep 29, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Shack31
    Member

    Sounds like I'd be better off snatching a 5.7 out of a Chrysler 300c or a ram...the NAG transmission is supposed to be crazy strong and I could probably pick up the whole running car with a 5.7 hemi for 3k...

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  19. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yea you could do that. But if you do just don't bring it to the HAMB. Late model engines just don't work here. Since you are a new guy take a few minutes and read the rules about what is and is not cool here.

    Now with that said, your 31 I assume is a Model A Ford--correct? By the way all Model A coupes are 5 windows they didn't make anything else in Model A's. you know as I think about that there was that Sport Coupe thing and I guess those critters did have 3 windows sort of. There are a lot of much more traditional engines you could use in the 31. All of them don't have to cost the money a "EARLY" Hemi does. And most of them are damn cool. Take a little time and look around here on the HAMB and see what you can see, you may just be surprised at the choices there are.
     
  20. Shack31
    Joined: Sep 29, 2019
    Posts: 16

    Shack31
    Member

    My apologies...my brain just ran off trying to be smart! I'll probably stick to my original plan and keep it ford powered. I let the perceived opportunity cause me to run a muck thinking I found great deal on an old hemi. If it were a desirable hemi I definitely would do it but it sounds borderline stupid for me to do it based on the advice.
    You all are the best, thanks for the guidance!!
    Jeff

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    kidcampbell71 and VANDENPLAS like this.
  21. The thing about most HAMBers is that we don't let common sense or expense get in the way of building what we really want....:p
     
  22. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 5,507

    continentaljohn
    Member

    The 331 hemi is a good cool motor and with a bit of hunting you can find the adapter for the extended bell engine. I know of 3 different ones and have 3 different ones myself 331 to Cad,Packard and Chevy 3 speed. The adapters go for about 150 to 250 depending on what it fits. Whats nice it the aluminum flywheel is about 350 and most likely will have to machine a pilot bushing . I have a buddy that raced them in the 1960s and has been collecting parts and motors since. His feeling on the 331 354 motors are great and cant kill them. I dont think building a race motor is cheap in any build but a early hemi is definitely going to cost ya.. building a stocker mild motor is much better on the pocket book ..
    I dont have a 331 but do have 241 270 dodge redrams . I love the 241 as its small and fits better then the larger motors . It does have its drawbacks such as limited parts but thats what makes it cool and not a sheep. The DESOTO motor is cool too but parts such as the intake and cam are hard to find. As my buddy was saying on the desoto he only has top fuel cams for that motor so you’ll have to have one ground. I have been collecting parts for the desoto and hope to find one some day as they are cool. Good luck and please post the results .
     
    Jeff Norwell likes this.
  23. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Don't give up on the idea of putting a Hemi in your hot rod! Just give up on the idea of flipping one of those motors for enough dollars to get a two-for-one deal, unless they are in really good running shape already. Then continue your education on what things are worth, how much things cost to build, and what they're worth when you're done. There's nothing wrong with a 331 extended bell if you can find one for a reasonable price in running shape. But if you have to rebuild it, it will not have the performance per dollar spent compared to the bigger hemis. If you're going to put the money into building one, you're probably better off starting out with a 354 or 392. On another thread here on the hamb, somebody just picked up a 392 that is ready to go and drop into their hot rod. That's a good way to go if you can find one for a decent price.
     
    kidcampbell71 and loudbang like this.
  24. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 14,811

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member





    I agree John!!!!!!.......100000000000000000%

    IMG_1340.jpg
     
  25. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    John, Please share with us Hemi guys were you are getting adapter plates for $150-$250 dollars. I have been doing these Hemi's for a while and the transmission can be one of the more expensive problems to address. The extended bell 331 is absolutely the worst of the bunch. To adapt one of these to a Automatic is not cheap at all, the adapter for most of these does come with the flex plate but they are $700. If you are going to go with a manual transmission it's really not much better. The adapter is north of $550 and then you need a flywheel bellhousing and the rest of the stuff. Flywheels are running another $500 or so unless you are lucky enough to find a stock flywheel as they can be made to work. So if you are buying adapters for the extended bell 331 for $150 let us all know where this deal is to be found.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
    gimpyshotrods and woodsnwater like this.
  26. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,287

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cant argue with that!
     
  27. Any engine Hemi or not that you cant hear run that isn't in a vehicle or in a stand with oil pressure guage and a radiator so you can check for bubbles is nothing more than a core and a big gamble if its even a rebuildable core.
     
  28. That Thar’s a Goodun’ right thar

    Chalk one up for you!
     
  29. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 2,459

    6sally6
    Member

    Don't own a hemi but I sure lik'em ! My question is....would a guy be money ahead to spring for a 426 Hemi from the 60's instead of the outragous piroce to try and save an old one? OR is it about saving the old ones more so than getting a Hemi at a reasonable $$?
    6sally6
     
    kidcampbell71 and Hemi Joel like this.
  30. that is a good question. Garlits hated the new 426 Hemi. Decided to blow it up and really upped the nitro and set a new record. Suddenly he liked it. It all about personal preference and what your end goal is.
     
    Truckdoctor Andy likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.