Art & Inspiration When does traditional "expand"? (If it ever does)

Let's hope Ryan lives forever!

 

If it ain't broke....don't fix it! Ryan has made this work very well for us and I thank him for that!

 

I took a look @ guidelines for HAMB ,
By the Look of pics that Ryan posted ,
If yr vehicle has parts that where not available in 1965, or reman /Reproductions / Brand's of 1965 cut , YR vehicle is OFF Topic!!

Traditional , I take the Definition/Description meaning
""Traditional Inspired Build"" NO Part's After 1965. BY The HAMB Definition /term "Traditional"

There are ,off top of my head 4 threads of well known cars / builds that do not fall under HAMB guide lines that are Pages & Pages of post's.

I am NOT in favor of any Deleted post / pics , Maybe Ryan will start a New category ""Modified Hot Rods""/Kustoms .
Not meaning Pro Touring builds Hot Rods / Kustom's / billet Street Rods
Cut off around 72 ,The Ones that put the time /effort some modern parts for the looks of Nostalgic /Vintage / Race ,

 

Seems to me, it is expanding almost constantly, as we embrace otherwise unloved cars and trucks that weren't exactly "hot rod" material "back in the day", simply because the supply of eligible vehicles is dwindling. Maybe the year cutoff isn't the issue it would seem to be. Being able to apply your preferred concepts onto an acceptable vehicle, and being satisfied with your results is the key.

 

I'm not critizing Ryan, and I thank him for creating the site. I simply offered a suggestion that I think would help insure that there is less confusion and a better understanding of what is acceptable .......might I suggest even "desirable" on the site.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"........then why does this thread even exist ? People continually post threads that are outside the stated purpose of the site or ask why something got deleted or why something obviously didn't get deleted.
Take the recent thread on installing a 5 speed transmission from an S10 into a pre 66 car to make it street friendly for low bucks. Definitely not a traditional solution, but is it harming the site? I don't think it does. 32 Ford roadster with a 350 Chevy engine......does that create an issue?
How about ANY car with an aftermarket A/C installed ? Over in the Custom car section I'll bet a lotta lead sleds got A/C even if everything else is correct. I'm just saying it would be easier to make an adjustment to the rules without going overboard on specfics.....just a general guide that doesn't create as much confusion. Again, not criticizing the site, just hoping to make it even better.

 

this movie scene reminds me of this thread.

 

I joined here in 2010. I swear every other post was a build thread of a cool rod or custom. Lots of pictures and discussion of what and how things where being done. Pages and pages of the builds start to finish. Sure there where some wanabes that really did not have a clue. I remember one guy posted picks of a solid 51 Chevy. He was going to Chop it 6" section it 4" channel it 4" and Z the frame 6" . I asked him where he was going to put the seats and drive train. Now all I find is threads like this and page after page of bullshit. In the last 50 years I have built 100's of cars, trucks and motorcycles for myself and customers. I use to enjoy talking projects and doing a little bench racing and sharing the knowledge of paint, metal and chassis fab that I have . But all anyone seems to want to do now is argue about what someone thinks or wants to do. Traditional or not this place has gone to hell in a hand bag! Larry

 

All you folks with your panties in a wad, lighten up! Nobody wants to change the HAMB! Mark's post, which I fully agree with, sums it up, some people get confused over the term "Traditional" used here. He's right, "Era correct", meaning from the 1920's to 1965 is the era covered here. We could almost be consider restorers in a sense, because we are restoring to an era, not to stock, but what would have been correct and proper for hot rods and customs in the HAMB covered era. Sure, there are things that are not era correct on many builds such as radials, ac, alternators, 5 speeds, etc, but the overall look is era correct.

OK... NOBODY is saying change the HAMB! What the original post was asking IMHO is are there other eras that can be considered traditional, which my reply is, it depends on when you were born as to what YOU think is traditional. I'm 60, will be 61 in April, my traditional era would be from mid 60's through the mid 70's, but that doesn't diminish what I like about pre 1965 stuff, in many ways I like it better!

Traditional is just a word to describe stuff you like from your youth or from before you. Don't get hung up on terms, just enjoy what you like, life is too short to drive ugly cars! LOL!!!

 

Thanks. Someone finally read the original post.

 

I love these topics. The founder of this joint established his rules and focused the interest accordingly. As an individual you dig it or you don't. Nothing wrong or worth spittin your beverage out about. At it's core it pretty much sums up a time before kit cars and the 1-800-STREET ROD gig that took off about the same time as disco but might have started around the Haight/Ashbury days, give or take a few. There's some crossover or carryover in those days and generally there's the good ol "Ya know it when ya see it" rule. Examples might be Wild Willie's "Winged Express" gettin crossed up at a race in 69. Maybe the Tognotti Fiat with it's long-haired and bell-bottom crew gettin ready for a pass, perhaps as late as 70. You know it when you see it. Is it our focus? No. Some folks like a rigid 'gotta be' approach, that's all good too. Does the umbrella open? Not at all so far. That would make this something akin to the AACA where anything 25 yrs or older is an antique car. Yes, that includes a 5.0 Mustang now as well as those 90s Impala SS sedans. Can't have it, doesn't work. Now if there was an opening of said umbrella I think the day the Front Engine Dragster died is a better choice than most other criteria one could imagine. Right about the same time the gov't got too involved in car production, insurance companies chose to sodomize the performance minded folks and generally industry caved in.

The hero worship we share here was also shared within the auto industry, and in the time period we embrace the fuckers were street racing on Woodward Ave testing product in "the real world" of it's consumers. What a time to be in your prime, huh? But yeah, 'round about 1971 it was all over but the cryin. We could eliminate musclecar stuff and still rouse a shit ton of build styles that bring a smile to the most hardcore traditionalist. Should we? Maybe, maybe not. That was also the end of perhaps the darkest days of show rods in some opinions. Outlandish goofy shit designed for little more than shock and awe. Doesn't make it bad, more like raw oysters. Some folks love em but to me it's tuna flavored mucus on the 1/2 shell. Sorry, couldn't resist that one. We're probably just fine right where we are and I can't see any additional leniancy to the rules than what's already done now and then. I have a feeling that if it's the right car and doesn't have an LS small block or DUBS they're mostly ok, and only on the general board. We have the 2 focused boards for rods and customs that stick to specific eras. Those umbrellas are stuck closed and repair parts are obsolete, so no they're never gonna open. That's actually a good thing.

 

"Traditional" does not expand.

The very practice of of one person calling something traditional is an act-of-exclusion of what that person considers "not traditional".

Invariably, when the opinions of others are added, further acts-of-exclusion invariably outnumber acts-of-inclusion.

"Traditional", therefore, does not expand, it contracts.

 

Anyone want to buy my 96 Impala SS?

 

Maaayyybe... if you visually backdated the engine to 327 appearance, Watson panel painted it, and ran reversed chrome steelies

 

Good call !
Shit disturber.

 

You are free to build whatever you like, I also have the freedom to walk buy it and not really care. Bob

 

1. I'm new. So take what I have to say knowing I don't know too much about this site.
2. Seems the rules regarding the meaning of "traditional" need to be changed, as most builds have items installed that are post 65 manufacture. Mine will for sure, starting with my T5.
3. Would I change the time cut-off for pre 65 - no. Ther are other forums for other genres.
4. I do feel that most threads are anything but actual builds which is why I joined - to learn from others and share their/ my passion.
5. Another forum/site I used to frequent called this category "chit-chat", which had nothing to do with the original aim of the site - Land Cruisers. I surmise what happened there is happening here. Older guys morphed from "young" guys actually doing/building stuff, to arm chair internet surfers wanting to comment on anything under the sun because for whatever reason they were no longer driving/modding/building their own vehicles. I know because I am one of those. I simply was not as interested in driving/modding my truck as I once was - been there/done that. So here I am trying to pick up on a new/old interest of mine, but actual tech info is few and far between.
My two cents...

 

REALLY?? SERIOUSLY ??? All I have to say is, ah, um, yea, Thit now I forgot what I was going to say!! Oh, Love this place!! From the peanut gallery, Pete!!

 

I think @62rebel hit the nail on the head.
The Traditional/Period correct seen has expanded since I first became inserted in these style cars when I was 17 in 1999.
Then it was all about primer/flat black, Mexican blanket interiors. The cars were built in what I would call a 1952-1957 window.
Things started to evolve with people started to build painted cars with interiors, cars with a later 50's early 60's styling.
Some went the other way and started building bangers and prewar Gow-Jobs.

Period correct racing events started to pop up. There are now organizations just for racing period-correct cars. Like the South East Gassers, or my club Mohawk Valley Vintage Dirt Modifieds.

The H.A.M.B. is for per 65 style cars we all know that that is why I signed up and as I said earlier in this thread I like period-correct cars. Hot Rods/Customs, Muscle cars, and many forms of auto racing.

I find some ivory of the flat out hatred of the Muscle cars by some posters. They seem to forget many of the hot rod pioneers were deeply involved in the Muscle car movement.

Larry Shinoda played a major roll in the design of the Mako Shark, ’63 Corvette Stingray, and the Boss Mustang.

Fran Hernandez- Lead of Mercury’s Trans-Am efforts, and one of the lead developers of the Boss 429 Mustang.


Dan Gurney- first to claim victories in all four major categories of motorsports; F1, International Sports Cars, Indy Cars, and NASCAR
-Wins in SCCA Trans-Am, SCCA CanAm,


The major issue I see is the Traditional/Period correct hot rod movement has been invaded by trend chasers.
The guys who sat behind their splash graphic, pro-street billet laden cars, and bitched about a punk kid with a flathead powered model A coupe in primer or an old timer who dug out the hot rod he built in 1957 with cracked lacquer paint. The pro-street guys jumped ship and wanted traditional car once they saw the attention our style cars were getting.

The thing the trend chasers failed to understand is period correct cars aren't a trend for us. Weather it is a guy in his/her 20', 40's or 80's it is what we do.
We may build a prewar hot rod today, an early 60's style drag car for the next project, There isn't any jumping around to totally un-related types of cars.
I did my 53 Chevy in an early 60's style, as I have said before my family history in oval track dating back to prewar. My current project is a early 60's style model A stock car.

The trend chasers go wherever the wind blows them. It's about the "it" thing at the time for them.

 

As the years roll by more stuff becomes old and cool. There's now a scene for 80s/90s (search Radwood) it's a great show but that stuff will never belong on here.

I don't want the HAMB to change one bit, I just wish boards that cater to other time periods were run as well as this one and had as high quality of contributors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

People come to this site because of the vast knowledge. They are for the most part, non traditionalists. There are a few, but as I see it, most aren`t. Air rides dropped to the ground, modern motors and Caravan seating. Cause it`s easy and comfortable. Also, they buy 1-800-traditional-parts. I like the truly traditional rides. Not the modern version of a traditional ride. Am I in the minority. We think at the time, doing these modern things to traditional builds is a good thing, until a few years later when they look dated. Like putting modern mirrors on a 50 Merc. Or buckets seats in a 40 Ford. As far as expanding the era, No. This is the shop that existed back in the mid fifties that did oil changes, put gas in your car and built cool hot rods and customs in the back bay. And we don`t offer pay at the pump either. This thread is lacking pictures. Here is my version of a 32 Ford if I were to build one.

 

No one born after 1964 should be here, I'm sure it's in the rules somewhere.

 

I'm sensing more than a touch if sarcasm in that comment!

 

I would if it was a belair bubble top.

 

traditional: adjective
tra·di·tion·al | \ trə-ˈdish-nəl , -ˈdi-shə-nᵊl \

Definition of traditional
1: of or relating to tradition : consisting of or derived from traditional traditional celebration
2: handed down from age to age traditional historytraditional songs/stories
3: following or conforming to tradition : adhering to past practices or established conventions traditional morality, traditional values/beliefs,

No expansion necessary in the traditions from our pre-65 hot rod history.


Hello,

We are all traditional in a sense. We like doing what we used to do, think about it at various times, protect our family, raise intelligent offspring to allow them to get along in this world, and help relatives when possible, etc. Those are traditional things we have all grown up to learn and complete to the best of our abilities. For some, the list is long and getting longer with a wonderful granddaughter, whose future is eyes wide open. But, as young as she is, she likes the traditions we have set from the time she was with us 4-5 days a week from birth to third grade, as well as the two times a week as a teenager.

For the traditional definition set here on the HAMB, that pre-65 limit is perfect. If anyone can remember, those years previously were the developing years for many of us and the hot rod world. It was a hot rod that was not an obnoxious show car only and were used to go to school and work. For some, it fit into their simple lives. All of these years later, there should not be a question as to the cut off date. There are other web forums for other years and information.

In drag racing, the history speaks for itself. The new technology made some advances that were good, but as the years rolled on, it stomped on what was some of the core of drag racing. The everyday guy/girl that wanted to just race their own street level hot rods, not some 25k full on race car that was only used at the dragstrip. The styles of the race cars were getting away from street legal cars to dragstrip only and set off a furious, but awful period of copying drag cars for everyday driving. It started in 1964-65 and the following years during the society’s critical activities, changed the look of the everyday hot rods to those garish
“up in the air” vehicles that were mostly against the DMV rules for safe driving.

Jnaki

Then with our money hungry, social mores changing, the era of street rods took over and it has been a long time to get back to the basics of design and simple hot rodding. Daily drivers were better than garage queens. Do we need 100k hot rods blasting our faces at the big name car events or awards shows?

So, this HAMB site has set the limits and hopefully it stays that way. Pre-65 is a good cut off and sticks to those that saw those changes after experiencing the good old days. That was the era that should stay here. Therefore, the traditional term is defined from those days and old hot rods.

If there are some people that were teens in the era after 1965, write about what you did and one day a web forum somewhere else will accept your memories and old photos. But, the pre- 65 HAMB stories all fit into a category specific to the TRADITIONAL era from the beginning to the end. We have all written modern stories that tie into our HAMB era history, but it is not the main topic of the posts or threads. The site has good moderators to keep us all in line following the simple rule set forth.

 

Are you aware that under the HAMB (General Discussion) umbrella the guidelines are more relaxed compared to the (Traditional Hot Rods forum) as to the components allowed for discussion (and photos), and yes, both are limited to 1965 and earlier type vehicles.
The HAMB won't persecute you for owning off topic cars, just don't make them a central part of your postings.
I choose to stay away from the Traditional side due to the fact that my cars have mostly modern components such as a fiberglass body, aluminum engine, etc.

 

I see the kids today with trucks like my daily driver (C-10 in the Avitar) putting LS-3s and 22" billet wheels and going to enormous effort to modify the chassis & suspension to allow enough room to raise the truck bed enough to install the bag system and compressor and huge tubs to fit the rear wheels, and of course, they have to use aftermarket tubular A-arms, and it doesn't stop there. They gotta have state-of-the-art Stereos with I-pad screens controlling their GPS and modern heating & air conditioners, and "Trailor-Queen" paint jobs... Now, very very few of these youngsters (when you're in your 70's almost everybody a youngster) actually did ANY of this work themselves... Seems like they all wear Chip Foose tee-shirts or some other popular local builder and swagger around like their the quintessential hotrodder and they're all so damn proud of themselves... I know these guys from local cruises and "Donut Derelicts" Saturday mornings... When they invariably ask me what I think of their new ride (because I'm an old guy with a C-10) I try to explain as politely as I can, I honestly don't like the look putting 22" wheels looks out of place to me, and when they say they have 500 HP and I say I do too they get a puzzled look when they look at my engine compartment and don't see "Aluminum Edelbrock Heads", I know I'm going to have to explain, I built my truck the way I did because its the way we did in the 60's because it's nostalgic and brings back memories of my youth and "Good Times", and when I was in High School we were lucky if we had two nickels to rub together so we had to learn how to weld, spray paint and modify used parts, and that back then if we didn't build it ourselves we simply didn't have one. Simple as that...I built my entire truck and screwed on every nut & bolt and painted it the first 3 or 4 times myself... I explain instead of buying "brand new" Edelbrock aluminum heads in the aftermarket, I feel much better about my truck & myself If I rework my existing #462 Iron heads and install new larger stainless-steel valves and do a little porting & polishing and end-up with as much or more HP as you and your LS engine, it seems like one of them always says "isn't it cheaper to just buy New aluminum ones" and I say yes But!! You get the picture... I have no idea where all this money is coming from but when I was there age I sure didn't have quarter million to spend on a car... I look at it like this: There are REAL hotrodders like us and then there is this new kind of car guys I call the "Mainstreet Hotrodders" and these are the ones the manufacturers would go broke without, SOMEBODY has to buy all the stuff being produced, and don't forget creating advertising budgets with and paying magazine editors & photographers, the shops building these cars. The money has to come from somewhere...

 

That is basically how it seems to function, but as new people join HAMB, they often don't catch the "unwritten but must absorbed by osmosis" idea that that there is "one" written rule, but it doesn't mean the same thing depending on which area you are posting in. They usually find out when the Traditionalists jump their ass.
Just last week a big issue was made about a thread.
The solution was to simply move the thread from "Traditional" to "General". Now its an acceptable thread. I'm good with that, but I don't understand why we don't just say up front that this thread is for one thing and the other thread is for something else.
I don't think any of us wants the HAMB to change at all. I know I don't.......but I think its helpful to just "say what is acceptable " at the thread introduction. We'll still be doing the same thing, A simple modification like the one below would solve a lot of honest mistakes.

Guidelines: The Traditional Hot Rod Forum
Dedicated to Period Correct Traditional Cars/Trucks and Components made prior to 1966 Only

Guidelines: The General HAMB Forum
Dedicated to Pre-1966 Cars/Trucks with American made engines only but allowing modifications and components made after 1965

 

When does traditional "expand"? (If it ever does)

When Ryan says it does ... at least here on the H.A.M.B.

Not really hard to understand.

 

I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for it to happen, and I'm good with That!