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Technical 65 Buick Special

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Randy Pecenak, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. Randy Pecenak
    Joined: Nov 27, 2019
    Posts: 2

    Randy Pecenak

    I have a 65 Buick special that has a 225 currently in it. It was originally an automatic car and the trans was replaced with a manual 5 speed (T5 I think I was told). I want to put a automatic back in it and put a V8 in it as well. I have the chance to pick up a 70's Buick 350 motor and trans (unknown model) for very cheap. Would it be worth the effort and time to do the swap? I would obviously rebuild both the engine and trans before putting it in. What would be the pro and cons. All input is very much appreciated. This is my first old buick. I am used to old Mopars. So I might be a little in the fog on some things for this.
     
  2. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,580

    wvenfield
    Member

    If it's what you want I imagine that would make it worth the effort. Most likely less effort than it took whoever wanted a standard in it.
     
    porknbeaner likes this.
  3. gsjohnny
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 241

    gsjohnny
    Member

    use the motor mounts from the v6. they should fit. you need to measure the length of the t5 vs the t350. also check the spline. if its all the same, you should be good to go. all other peripheral stuff should bolt up to the 350. if everything measures up, you should be up and running in one w/end.
     
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  4. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,566

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    It wouldnt be worth it to me, I wouldnt buy a random engine and trans that I knew needed rebuilt unless it was something specific for a car I really wanted, but then Im just an old hack......350/350 chevy would do it for me if all I wanted was a v8 auto
    I owned a 64 special once in my early teens (1980s) It was a v6 automatic.....my Dad bought it an estate sale for 60 dollars. Talk about a ride:eek:
    We drug it home from a little over a mile away on 4 flat tires and almost full of canning jars rattling the whole way not to mention the piece of plywood covered with a sheet that the little old lady used to dry her apples on, coming at the side of my head:D

    Wasnt long til it was cleaned up and running tho, Jacked up in the back with Cragars and 60s on, the hood was pretty rusty so I took it off, taped and spray bombed some flames down the fenders:rolleyes:....:D
     

  5. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @Randy Pecenak .......yes, the 350 Buick engine and auto trans are well worth your time to swap in place of the V6. The trans is most likely a TH350, but could be a TH400, depending on original application. The Buick 350 is often overlooked because of the cult status of the Chevy 350, but is a very well engineered engine, light weight and good performer.

    As @gsjohnny says, it should be an easy swap.

    Ray
     
  6. chopped
    Joined: Dec 9, 2004
    Posts: 2,139

    chopped
    Member

    I put a Chevy 350/350 in my 64, used Chevelle motor mounts and the original trans mount.
     
    banjeaux bob likes this.
  7. gsjohnny
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 241

    gsjohnny
    Member

    just don't send your buick engine to a chevy machine shop...….
     
    texasred likes this.
  8. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    If you are going to that much trouble why not look for a 455 Buick ? There are several available reasonably on Ebay.
    Put a 455 and use a 4 speed overdrive automatic behind it so you can cruise. While a 350 is technically a good engine, the 455 will make it a lot more desirable.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  9. Shalamo
    Joined: Oct 12, 2018
    Posts: 169

    Shalamo
    Member

    I agree with ekimneirbo , I have been around these Buick’s for a while ( have a Skylark with a built 455 / 400 trans right now. While the 350 is a deal, by the time you rebuild it you could have built a 430 or 455 for the same money. There are still a lot of them out there that can be had pretty cheap. The demo derby guys yank ‘em out and put chevys in their cars. Plus there are more aftermarket parts available.
     
  10. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Another vote for a 455, they are fairly light, in addition to their torque production.
     
  11. gsjohnny
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 241

    gsjohnny
    Member

    350 may not make gobs of power, but a 455 cannot turn 7500rpm with stock rods. they need a lot of bandaids on the bottom end or they go poof. that's why I like the 350.
     
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  12. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,299

    upspirate
    Member

    Back to the original post, do you just want V-8 power and a 3sp auto or a performance set-up? If performance, it may be cheaper for parts and speed equipment to go with a SBC. When I had my 65 Buick in high school, there weren't many speed parts available. Yes that article posted shows you can make decent power from the Buick, but at what cost? What is your budget? I had two back then, first was a Special 2 dr with a 225 V-6 and 3 spd manual, second was a Skylark convertible with 300/auto that I changed over to 3spd manual.Pic of my second one with a Wildcat 310 engine (300 cu in....don't know why they called them 310): High School Buick.jpg
     
  13. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @upspirate

    Two things.....first... the idea that one should always go for the big cube version of a given engine series.....not EVERYBODY gives a damn about huge cubic inch engines. Sometimes enough is enough, depending on the intended use.

    second.....if the most economical engine to build was the only criteria, the cult following of Flathead Ford V8’s would be nonexistent.....I can’t think of a greater waste of dollars in comparison to the dismal performance achieved with the little Dearborn Boilermaker. Yet legions of our fellow HAMBERs love them. I admire their loyalty if not their judgement.

    But, then again, I prefer to invest in almost anything over the belly button Chevy small block....or big block, for that matter. Some of us just march to the tune of a different drummer.

    Ray
     
  14. This doesn't answer your question, but it helps sometimes to know there are others out there with different setups. My special 2 Dr sedan is a 64, started life as a 225 with 2 speed auto. I swapped it out for a 500 cadillac and th400. It's a worn out engine completely stock and would likely get decent mileage if I could keep my foot out of it. It's fun. And cheap.
     
  15. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,299

    upspirate
    Member

    Like you said,I was just trying to go back to what he wanted/expected/budget/ intended use. If just better stock V-8 type performance and a tight budget, the 350 Buick would be fine. If rip-roaring tire smoking performance maybe look at other choices depending on budget
     
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  16. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    .

    With a 455 there is no need to turn an engine 7500 rpms. Usually builders want the most power they can get for what they can afford to spend. Following close behind that, they want reliability and longevity for their investment. If you start with comparable condition engines, a 350 being regularly "tested" to 7500 rpms will most likely fail long before a 455 at 5500 rpms. It will not have the low end or mid-range torque to deal with a mild 455 because of the cam requirements needed to reach 7500 rpms. The initial purchase price of a decent 455 will most likely be more than a 350 but will be money well spent. Some builders like wild cams and elevated rpms but their cars usually don't get driven daily..,.....just depends on the individual.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
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  17. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,580

    wvenfield
    Member

    Put a Buick in it. If not a Buick a Cadillac would be cool.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  18. The Buick 350 is a bolt-in where the V/6 was with stock parts. I had a giant 79 [smogger] buick 4-holer wagon winter beater with the 350 engine. Didn't care for it at all. The 350 really wasn't enough power for that kind of weight and it got terrible gas mileage. I traded it for a chevy pickup with no floor pans.
     
  19. Mojo
    Joined: Jul 23, 2002
    Posts: 1,872

    Mojo
    Member

    Was it a bolt in? The 500 is a awesome engine, i've been a fan of them for years.
     
  20. Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
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  21. Randy Pecenak
    Joined: Nov 27, 2019
    Posts: 2

    Randy Pecenak

    Thank you all for the input. Chevy 350 is an absolute NO WAY! Going to keep it Buick all the way. I like the fact that the 350 will pretty much bolt right in and that is what I am looking for. I am doing this all myself (engine and trans rebuild) with the exception of any machine work that need to be done. So it will be inexpensive that way. I have found a few places for inexpensive parts. Big Blocks are just that, Big and heavy and expensive. I understand that everybody wants a 455. I just want a peppy car that can be passed on to my kids and to the grand kids that keeps American Muscle alive and well running!
     
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  22. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Which 225 is it? If it's the Dauntless, I would keep it and place a th350 behind it.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  23. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,566

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    Any pics of the car?
     
  24. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    IIRC, Dauntless was Jeep’s marketing name for the Buick V6 used in CJ’s and Jeepster Commandos. They were ordinary 2 bbl carb engines.....nothing special, but a huge improvement over the F-head Jeep 4 banger.

    Ray
     
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  25. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,566

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    The guy we sold my buick to was gonna pull the engine and put it in a jeep...they said it would work but I never knew the details???
     
  26. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    True. They also put them in the Skylatks for a short time. The Dauntleas motor was swapped around in the Buicks. I had a Dauntless 225. Wish that I didn't get rid of it. Also the Dauntless 225 is the Odd Fire motor. Great sound and great power.
    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  27. BLACK STUDE
    Joined: Jan 30, 2014
    Posts: 397

    BLACK STUDE
    Member

    Check out the v8 Buick board. Plenty of 350 info. T/A performance has the 350 parts.
     
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  28. gsjohnny
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Posts: 241

    gsjohnny
    Member

    the names, dauntless, etc, were just selling points. they didn't change anything, they were still just a buick.
    t/a makes parts for the 350. just pick your performance.

    "the 350 being regularly "tested" to 7500 rpms will most likely fail long before a 455"
    been beating on my 350 about 15yrs. n/a and s/c. rpm's to 10k by error and normally 65-7500 rpm's. worse was a blown head gasket last year. build it right from the get-to and it will last.
     
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  29. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    [QUOTE="gsjohnny, post:

    "the 350 being regularly "tested" to 7500 rpms will most likely fail long before a 455"
    been beating on my 350 about 15yrs. n/a and s/c. rpm's to 10k by error and normally 65-7500 rpm's. worse was a blown head gasket last year. build it right from the get-to and it will last.[/QUOTE]
    An engine built to take the stress of supercharging and 7500 rpms can be built if someone is willing to invest money in quality parts and has the tools and experience to build one. I find it difficult to believe that that a 350 Buick could reach 10,000 rpms much less sustain no damage in the process. One of the big mistakes people make is being enamored by high rpm HP numbers by small block engines. Cams that produce high rpms and often the high horsepower that they can extract overlook the loss of good Streetable torque at low and mid range rpms. Then they compensate with higher numerical gearing......making the car less Streetable. For good street driving, a car with a wide torque band along with reasonable to high HP is a more enjoyable driver. If someone just wants to drive occasionally to rod runs and a nearby dragstrip the high rpm "driver" is tolerable.Had a friend many years ago that didn't understand the concept of giving up low end power and bought a camshaft out of a dragster. I went with him on his first test drive. He replaced the cam.......
     
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  30. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @ekimneirbo in total agreement with your hp vs torque comments. Have said the same thing in various conversations over the years.

    I really like your signature line. Excellent!

    Ray
     
    firstinsteele and ekimneirbo like this.

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