What is the preference for a line lock for hill holding, front or rear brakes? Not intended for overnight parking, just stop and go stuff.
Wouldn't this depend on the car as it comes to weight and balance. If its a light front end car it won't matter how big the brakes are up front the locked wheels will slide. I guess size of the hill needs to be taken into consideration also. To many variables and I feel that I'm overthinking it today. Sorry
Right. Might not work too good on a T bucket with wire front wheels, 4" wide tires, and Mickey Thompson Sportsmans on the back......
For most generic apps I'd think front would do. That's where the motor is so that's where the weight is too, right? In that same situation I grab the hand brake to transition from stop to go but that dictates a pretty torquey engine that's able and a few seconds of clutch slip. I mean, a Line-Loc switch on a Packard or Duesy would be a little outta place, no?
Hey B, Save your money and I am sure you already know how to do a “hill start” with the clutch, brake pedal emergency lever, and throttle. After learning that method, there is no additional thing (something else as an accessory to go wrong) necessary on any stick shift car. That is why a car length or two behind a stick shift car on those small hills or big hills is necessary for keeping sane while driving. No rollbacks when the light turns green. When we were twenty somethings, my wife wanted a stick shift car. We drove all kinds of 3 and 4 speed cars, hot rods, and sporty cars. She knew it got better gas mileage with the stick shift over an automatic transmission. Over the years, she stayed away from the manual transmission cars. She had a bad experience being yelled at by her un-supportive and quick-tempered dad trying to learn the aspects of driving a stick shift car. But, she still wanted a stick shift car. She said I could teach her to drive one of those. She had the utmost confidence in me and it was a challenge I could not mess up or else... So, we actually bought a 5 speed sporty car that she had always wanted, but it was always out of reach. Since it was sitting in our carport, she wanted to drive it, right now. Driving over to an nearby industrial tract of buildings, after 4 pm during the summer, was a perfect place to learn the finer aspects of stick shift driving. She learned fast and it was fun driving all around the newly created Irvine Industrial tract, just off of the 405 freeway. The freeway lent itself to shifting on the on ramps and merging, but there were a few off ramps that gave her some slippage on starting from the stop sign. So, back to the industrial complex to find that small hill with a right turn to practice. We had many practice runs on flat ground going over the "hill start" method of steps. She had a great memory and had the steps down pat. Now, that little right hand corner with a slight grade and stop sign gave us trouble the first three times, but on the 4th, the method was perfectly done. It felt like an automatic transmission car stopping and then proceeding past the stop sign. It does not matter the size of the hill, the cars will all roll back. Unless the hill start method is used in any stick shift car. No other accessory needed. Jnaki So, what does a happy husband do for his fast learning wife? Why a +1000 mile drive up Highway 1 all along the West Coast to San Francisco, the ultimate test of steep hill stops and starts. The pre-test popped up sooner that we liked. In Morro Bay, there is this one corner that has a red stop sign. It is at the end of a short uphill rise, but also stops on an off camber slope. With several anxious driver tailgating behind, my wife calmly put it in first gear and stepped on the brake. She got all of her test information on the hill starts in the forefront and proceeded to do the best stick shift hill start, ever! All with a smile on her face and afterwards, a comment of “… that #$@%& tailgater…” San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge … An unusual “11-1” death grip, that was “not” in the curriculum! WHAT????? https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ers-how-to-drive.1158263/page-3#post-13212425
As an aside, some older Subaru's had hill-holders as standard equipment on stick shift models. Consisted of a valve in the brake circuit set on an incline so an internal ball would roll back and block the circuit if you were on a hill with the clutch depressed. When you started to release the clutch a cable connected to the clutch pedal would actuate a lever on the valve pushing the ball forward and unblocking the circuit. Worked well and was very simple...
If I'm not mistaken Studebaker had a hill holder in the late fourties...whena saw that Subaru commercial about the " ingenious hill holder clutch I holler'd at the tv! " STUDEBAKER BEAT YOU TO IT !!!
Yep, Studebaker had hill holder. Works really well in my experience. Once you stop on the hill it will sit there when you take your foot off the brake.
Quite a few makes offered the hill holder, but other than on Studebakers it's very seldom seen. There's a '46 Chev 4dr here in town so equipped, still working, and never been opened up ...
Ah that's the answer, I need a Studebaker! Cool! I don't need it for hill starts, although it sounds handy. The manual gate on my little 7 acres of paradise is on a slope, as is my parking area and the driveway where I sometimes stop to pick up or drop off stuff. My parking brake works ok forward, less so rolling backwards, plus I feel like I'm wearing it out. The line lock is on it's way, I presumed I'd put it in front where they normally go, then got to thinking it could just as well go to the rears. Thanks for all the replies.
I use one on my Hiboy roadster on the front wheels and like it a lot. Plan to put one on my '40 Ford coupe sooner or later. I have found that with self energizing drum brakes you need to apply some additional pedal pressure sometimes to keep the car from rolling back if you stopped sorta "gently". This is because self energizing drum brakes utilize the vehicle's forward motion to help put pressure on the brake shoes, and if you are on a steep uphill when you stop, the car may roll back slowly if you don't put a little extra pressure on the pedal after you stop and before activating line lock. I also wait till just before time to start off to apply the line lock in order to not overheat the solenoid in the line lock. When I took my driving test back in '52, most cars had manual trans. and the GA State Patrol did the license tests. Locally the GSP station had a nearby steep hill where they had you stop halfway up, and cut off engine, restart, and pull off up the hill! This was the las tpart of driving test and if you had done all the rest OK and then did OK on this, you passed. As for the assholes that pull right up behind you when you're stopped on an upgrade, most just never drove a manual shift, and don't know any better. In earlier years, people knew to allow a little extra space on a stop on an upgrade.
On most drum brake rear axles, the parking brake does not hold well in the reverse direction - something about applying pressure on only one shoe (on each side).
I've got a NOS Chevrolet accessory hill holder from the late-'30's. I'll have to dig it out nd post a pic of it. Meanwhile, here's a copy of the installation instructions from it...... No-Rol Device by TagMan, on Flickr
Well I don’t have a line lock but this is what I did. I have a small ball valve plumbed into the brake line going to the rear wheels. When I press down on the brake pedal I then turn the ball valve to the off position. This locks the pressure into the line and clamps the brake calipers. Simply turning the valve open unclamps the calipers. In my application I really didn’t have room for an emergency brake. This set up holds car on hills, can be used to hold car on hill with out having to slip clutch while starting up. An added benefit is it can also be used as a security device locking rear wheels while away from the car.
Here's another option. Apply the brakes, push the button, it holds until you press the brakes pedal again. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spee...MI9evDuoqE5gIVk8hkCh06RQtjEAQYBSABEgJ4sPD_BwE
Dick Brannan used a modified Studebaker Hill Holder on his drag cars. The first use of a Line Lock in drag racing.
Some tow trucks and Rollbacks use these. No electronics https://www.mico.com/brake-lock-troubleshooting/lever-lock
Must be driving badly adjusted brakes since the early 1960's. My experience is the parking brake can be overpowered easier in reverse. In the forward direction, the self-actuation kicks in. Any one out there have any input?
I can’t help that my opinion is contrary to the concept. My newer off topic straight shift vehicle has a factory hill holding type of device. It’s made for someone that does not know how to drive a straight shift. I have found it’s a detriment to the driving experience rather than an attribute. It adds to the complexity of day to day driving....When you need to go, you got to fight the dang hill hold. On a hill, it still releases after it holds for several seconds so there’s still feathering the clutch..... I find it a bother and I wish the Jeep did not have that feature. There’s no way I would add such to an older car. Your results may vary.
I just pulled the hill holder setup off of one of my Studebakers, 50 Champion 4dr. , its a parts car for my 50 Champion Starlight coupe . I keep it a driver , easier to move around, but the master cylinder started leaking so I just swapped it for a standard one I had ...brakes work again. So here you go , just needs a rebuild... Sent from my SM-T387V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Servo acting drum brakes is one shoe applying force to the other, dual servo is this happens in both directions. These brakes have a shorter primary shoe and a longer secondary. When applied the primary shoe “wraps” into the drum and applies force to the secondary which does most of the work. In reverse the same thing happens only the shorter shoe is trying to do the work. The primary shoe is generally “grabbier” which allows it to apply more force to the secondary. In reverse they don’t apply as well. The park brake applies both shoes on both sides, it doesn’t work as well in reverse because of the difference in shoes. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Thanks for the explanation. I have read this before, but, could not describe the details after after this many years.
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