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Projects Going to build a car around this trans

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by junkyardjeff, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    Picked up this GM 3 speed/o/d trans that had been in this guys family for 60 years so its going to be a start for a new project,was in a 53 Studebaker behind a 389 but since I have a couple extra 235s I would like to build a 33 to 35 Chevy coupe if one could be found reasonable. I would like to know just what it came from but thinking 55-7 Chevy? 100_9607.JPG
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

    55-64. There should be a casting date on the case, that will narrow it down...
     
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  3. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    It was put in the Studebaker in 59 so will have to be 55 to 59.
     
  4. Cool! I had one of those in an O/T 70s stepside and it performed great with a toggle switch and a choke cable.
    BTW, I have a 57 Pontiac project built around an NOS taillight lens.........so far all I have is the lens but the project is only 4 years old. 57pontiaclense.jpg
     

  5. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    squirrel's on the right track, 55-65,. then the Saginaw's came out in 66. BUT, this transmission, the Muncie 318, or 319 with overdrive, was available until later, the very late 60's, and possibly early 70's (as one member notes). The Saginaw's, and those with an overdrive, were quite a bit stronger, and full synchro to boot. It's getting hard to find anything more than gasket, and small parts kits (needle bearings and such) for these transmissions, and the synchro drums are made with the synchros staked in place; the 64 and later drums are easy to find, the earlier ones, not so much. Your shifter is a stock 56-62 3 speed Corvette shifter, with a home-made adapter plate. Corvettes actually had bosses on the extension housings to mount the shifters directly to. The same company that made the Corvette shifters, also made the Ansen Posi-Shift shifters. I have several of those Ansen's, including a rare, rectangular shifter stick. Most of them are round, like yours. And, I have several Hurst shifters for these overdrive transmissions, both NOS and used. I'm currently down to ONE Muncie 319 transmission. If you need parts, GarageMotorSports.Com out of Vancouver, Wa, and DriveTrain.Com, are both good places for parts, including overdrive parts. A lot of these Muncie 319's burned up due to leaking gear lube, so be sure and pull your side cover; if it's "black" at all, it's in bad shape. My head's starting to hurt now. Good luck. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

    One more thing; I think your transmission is later than the 55-57 style. Those had a "necked down" input shaft, and your's looks "straight (stronger).
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  6. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 30,778

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    If it is a 55-7 it will not have a place for a trans mount since those cars had mounts on the bell housing....
     
  7. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    Now to figure out how to wire it up.
     
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

    When you wire it up, do yourself a favor and do it right....governor, relay, kickdown switch. Don't try to get away with just a toggle switch.

    Setting it up as designed, makes driving with overdrive a pleasure.

    btw I guess you didn't really want to know what year it is, since you didn't look for the date? :)
     
  9. If it's "Just" overdrive you want and will not use a 5 speed (and I don't blame you) are you aware there is another choice? G.M. made a full manual stick shift that uses a standard 4 speed style shifter and is Overdrive. It's also a full sincro unit and parts are easy to buy over the counter. It's called an A833 here is what they look like.
    [​IMG]They will also take much more abuse than the old electric units. It shifts just like a standard 4 speed. 3rd gear is direct drive and 4th position is overdrive and nobody knows the difference. I understand doing things the hard way today just to stay Vintage but sometimes newer/better is an Okay thing to do as long as it's not just in your face.
     
  10. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    ^^^^Actually^^^^, "GM" did not "make it", MOPAR did, and they made them with two different bellhousing patterns FOR GM. The "second" style was more GM, as the earlier pattern was strictly the truck 5 bolt pattern, and won't work too well with a passenger car bell-housing. They will bolt on, just have the "5th' bolt mount sticking up unused, and looking out of place (we like clean installs). Second style makes for a much cleaner installation. There's also the Ford 3 speed with manual overdrive; you just need an aftermarket scattershield to bolt a Ford trans up against a GM block. I don't think they still make that scattershield, but older ones are still around. A lot simpler and cleaner than electronics with governors/solenoids poking up. JMO. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  11. Ahhh, and once again the Wealth of very specific information on the H.A.M.B. comes through. How about a year span of each and is there a different first gear ratio for the 6 cyl and V-8 models? Some seem to have more time to explain things than others.
     
  12. That's cool. I got an engine that I built around a crank and a set of rods. They had been in my little brother's garage since the '70s. They were mine but he gave them to me for my birthday one year. he's gone now I may never ever let that engine go.

    Jim (@squirrel ) would that tranny be a sag? Was GM using the Saginaw in that time period? just curious.

    Edit damnit: @56sedandelivery just noticed your post. So its a MOPAR tranny? Cool I was not aware.
     
  13. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I once built a Fender Strat around a loaded pickgaurd somebody gave me.

    OK, I'll shut up now.....
     
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  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,941

    squirrel
    Member

    later 60s for the Saginaw
     
  15. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    It will work with just a toggle switch to the solenoid, but you have to be careful! To shift into OD just flip the switch then let off the gas pedal. It will slip into OD. DO NOT just flip the switch off to drop out of OD though!! That puts a strain on the planetary gear shafts and one will eventually break, jamming and ruining the OD drum gear and planetaries. You MUST use the clutch when dropping out of OD if it's "straight wired" with just a toggle to power the solenoid. To drop out of OD push the clutch in then flip the switch off so there is NO load on the OD unit.

    The factory relays and kick-down switch actually cut the ignition (by grounding the coil) for a fraction of a second as the OD unit disengages. That's why you don't need to use the clutch. It's so fast you don't even notice that 1-2 cylinders skip firing. The special "ratcheting" OD kick-down switch breaks the power to the solenoid and grounds the coil, but as soon as it bottoms out it pops back up, breaking the ground to the coil. Safer to use the factory wiring, but you CAN make it work well without it... just remember to use the clutch to drop out of OD.

    The lock-out cable is normally not used. You just use it for parking in gear, push starting the car, or towing heavy loads where you don't want it to go into OD at all. Another use is mountain driving where you want to use engine braking a lot. You get no engine braking when OD is engaged by the cable -- the one-way clutch in the OD unit is active. That prevents over revving the engine when going down hill. If you have a good park brake just leave the OD handle out all the time and park with the brake. NEVER pull the cable while driving in OD! That will damage the trans. Technically you CAN pull the cable and lock the trans out of OD with the car moving as long as it's not IN OD, but it's best to use the cable only when not moving.
     
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  16. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,214

    sunbeam
    Member

    Just don't put it behind anything to stout I don't think Chevy used it behind anything bigger than a 283.
     
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  17. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I will look for a date code when I get a chance but did look enough to find it is made for a tail shaft mount so its at least a 58 and probably close to new when stuck in the Stude in 59,it will be going behind a 235 and it was behind a 389 Pontiac so I might have to tear it apart and look it over.
     
  18. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I do have one with a T-5 but I want to use this trans in my next build where there will be no major parts made after 1959.
     
  19. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I doubt I could ever find a 33 to 35 coupe so my next choice will be a 46 to 48 coupe.
     
  20. wicarnut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 9,052

    wicarnut
    Member

    If you are going to use hard, use a shifter with stops and I figured this out back in 1964, first gear is a slider, with hard shift first to second it will pop off the steel ring for synchros on the drum for second to third shift. After popping a few of these off, only pressed and pinned originally. I welded the ring on, clean up/true up in lathe, reassemble, magic, now it will take some abuse, broke shifter fork next or the first gear slider would fail. I probably did 10/15 of these for myself/friends, I ran this setup behind 348's, 4 speeds were expensive back then. I also liked to use the OD as I always had 4:11 gear. A tip from back in the day from an "Old Timer" Enjoy your project, first time I've heard of a project starting with a tranny.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  21. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    This trans was in a friends family for 60 years so I just cant sell it and it does need to be put back to use, it will give me a excuse to put it behind the extra 235 and build another car but will probably be a couple years before I can actually start so I hope something decent and reasonable shows up that it can be put in. If this was a Ford 3 speed o/d it would be going in my sunliner when it gets the Y block again next winter.
     
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  22. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,282

    farna
    Member

    Ford used mostly Borg-Warner T-85 (or T-84? Basically same trans, 85 is a side loader, 84 top) three speeds with OD. Borg-Warner made virtually all ODs used in American cars. Most are R-10 or R-11 units. at least in the late 50s through the early 70s (after which they fell out of use in favor of four speeds). The main difference is the R-10 use three planetaries in the OD unit, the R-11 used four. More shafts meant it would handle more power. Ford used R-11 units with the T-84/85 behind 390s in trucks in the late 60s and early 70s (at least up to 1970). May have been only 2V engines, I'm not sure. You won't have a problem with it behind a 235 six no matter what you do to it -- as long as it's built to be easily streetable. Throwing a 100 hp nitrous shot to it might be an issue for the trans. If drag racing simply lock the OD out or switch it off so it can't come in. Even if using the factory wiring you can add a toggle switch to the power line as a safety.
     
  23. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,776

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I really like the BW OD units. Even the R10s are tough enough for most tree use. I'm putting together a T86OD from a '54 Studebaker with a floor shift top plate from a T90 jeep trans. An important thing with the OD is to make sure that the reverse kick out is working. They don't like being turned backwards. They are fun to drive and pretty trouble free when set up right and used as intended. Make sure to make good gear oil choices.
     
  24. The overdrive A833 isn’t exactly known for its strength either


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  25. Hot rods have been built around smaller parts, my Deuce pickup was built around a set of BLC fog lights. HRP
     
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  26. If you do use a toggle switch for the solenoid, don't engage overdrive in 1st gear. The torque from the 1st gear reduction will tear up the sprag in the o.d. eventually. I've busted 2 of them.
     
  27. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I will most likely have to use a toggle switch to operate it,finding the correct parts might be impossible.
     
  28. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    Set it up as it would have been stock. you can substitute some parts, like using a horn relay in place of the OD relay that brings way too much $$$$$. Garage Motorsports modifies other solenoids/governors to work with other brands units also. There are reproduction pamphlets on that auction site we all know and love, along with wiring harnesses, and parts; you just have to look or know what to look for. Or, you can buy all my parts. I am butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  29. Sh2
    Joined: Mar 8, 2020
    Posts: 6

    Sh2

    How is this project going? I have the same transmission. I am looking to get it spinning next week.
     

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