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Projects Hot rod suspension issue

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Carl liscoumb, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. Carl liscoumb
    Joined: Oct 17, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Carl liscoumb

    Hello all,
    Just want your opinion on suspension.
    I have a 29 A Tudor. Stock frame, boxed, front extended 10 inches, rear Zed. Front has Split bones with super bell axle. Rear is a 10 bolt with
    Speedway rear radius rod coil kit.
    I am a leaf spring guy and can not seem to figure out my issue.
    -As I drive it feels as if the rear jerks to the side. This causes handeling issues. I hav trouble shooted and touched everything I think. Just haven’t put my finger on the issue.
    Yes it has a panhard bar and it currently sits a little high at frame but have had other vehicles with more angle and handled better.
    Any help would be great. Thx
     
  2. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    everyone here will want pics of the rear setup as well as the front end setup. Then they will tell you what's wrong.
     
    nochop, clem and lothiandon1940 like this.
  3. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,141

    GordonC
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Had a car with a broken rear axle and it would sort of do the watusi as I drove it. I would start looking at the mounting points on the chassis. Pics are always good. If you have a panhard bar that works it makes it pretty tough for the rear end to move to the side very much. Bushings at any mounting points should also be checked. They might look ok from the outside but might be worn in the middle.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  4. redo32
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 2,137

    redo32
    Member

    A picture is worth a thousand words and its way easier than typing a thousand words. Sounds like you have an extensively modified frame so there are lots of places to screw up in design and fabrication. Guys on here will look at your front end, wheels & tires (how much air?), shackles, steering and then they will tell you it is not a good idea to run a SuperBell with split radius rods. With the Speedway rear set up and a properly mounted panhard there should not be much wiggle there. You said coils, do you mean coilovers? We'll wait for pictures.
     

  5. kevinrevin
    Joined: Jul 1, 2018
    Posts: 189

    kevinrevin
    Member
    from East Texas

    Verify both rear springs are the same rate, also the shocks. One being softer or stiffer than the other could give you action like you describe. The shorter the panhard bar, the more side movement it gives during suspension travel.
     
  6. Tri-Power
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 153

    Tri-Power
    Member
    from Memphis

    You may want to re-check the panhard bushings. Do you have a front panhard bar as well? My roadster was very skittish before I installed one (in the front).
     
    dan31 likes this.
  7. dan31
    Joined: Jul 3, 2011
    Posts: 1,097

    dan31
    Member

    If your panhard bar isn't pretty level at rest then as it cycles through spring compression it can kick your rear ( or even front axle) over to one side causing the car to feel squirlly. A Watts link is really the way to go but it burns up a lot of real estate. Throw up a pic if you can.
     
    pitman likes this.
  8. You don't need or want a panhard bar with parallel leaf springs. It causes it to bind up with movement. You do need it on the front with split bones.
     
    jaw22w likes this.
  9. Carl liscoumb
    Joined: Oct 17, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Carl liscoumb

    Hi all and thx for the replies so far.
    I will post pics as soon as possible.
    I have run split bones same set up before and never ever needed a front panhard. The centering action of the traverse leaf didn’t allow much side to side movement. But there may be something to it. I will try to simulate side movement. I may need one.
    -The feeling I am getting it definitely rear.
    The rear panhard is not perfectly level and again have run vehicles with same angle and never an issue. When I get some time I will fab another longer mount and try it. You never know.
    Thx
     
  10. Carl liscoumb
    Joined: Oct 17, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Carl liscoumb

    Oh, as for tire pressure I have tried from 19lbs thru 35 lbs all testing this as well. that only changes the ride. Didn’t change the action I feel.
    And for the coils they are not coil overs.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Carl liscoumb
    Joined: Oct 17, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Carl liscoumb

    Here are a few pics I found of the front until I can get some better close ups.
     
  12. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,406

    alchemy
    Member

    Your car is cursed. It's got the skull and crossbones on it. Bad juju.
     
    nochop, GuyW, Nailhead Jason and 4 others like this.
  13. Get some rear pics where the issue is.
     
  14. While this may not cause the issue you’re describing I hate seeing spindles flipped to put the tie rod out front. It throws the Ackerman angle out the window.
     
  15. I know photo angle can play tricks with what you see verses what's actually going on. That said looking at the photo with the Tires turning Left it looks like your driver side tire is not turned out as far as the Tire on the passenger side. That makes them travel on a different Radi in a turn causing issues for sure. This is very common with Tie Rod out front on an I beam Axle. There are ways to cure that. To test for yourself park on a real smooth Cement floor like your garage. Turn the wheels either side to stop point. Now hold the steering wheel and try to push the car forward 3 feet. What happens?
     
  16. redo32
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 2,137

    redo32
    Member

    When you said SuperBell axle of course I jumped to the conclusion it was the tube axle they were famous for. Concerning the Ackerman.... baring distortion in the photo... the tie rod appears longer than the distance between the kingpins, which if you run a string thru the centers it stands a better chance of meeting close to the centerline of the rear end. And of course the inner and outer tires run thru a different radius when turning. So far, so good, if everything that is supposed to be tight is tight and everything that is supposed to move, moves freely. On to the rear.
     
  17. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,216

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Only with cross steering and / or a transverse spring that's too long.....with the correct length transverse spring and side delivery steering a panhard bar is not needed or wanted..
     
  18. jimvette59
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,107

    jimvette59
    Member

    Besides the angle of inclination through the king pin to center of the tire that is wrong the shock absorbers could be bottoming out and throwing your steering off. That's a lot of weight to be throwing around with that little front spring JMHO
     
  19. I agree with reversed spindles Ackerman angles are way off .
     
  20. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,212

    Elcohaulic

    Boy that sounds like snap oversteer from poly bushings but you don't have any poly..
     
  21. Carl liscoumb
    Joined: Oct 17, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Carl liscoumb

    I will get other pix when I can but found a pic of a temp panhard bar I used. I will put it back in and take some pix soon. But when I did this it helped level the panhard. I may have to fab up another slightly longer and get the bars as level as possible. That is probably it.
    I got got this car from someone that had a lot of weird stuff done so just trouble shooting.
    I appreciate all of the input so far.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Carl liscoumb
    Joined: Oct 17, 2018
    Posts: 6

    Carl liscoumb

    I am glad you all pushed me a little more about the panhard not being parallel enough. Was in my thoughts just needed a nudge. I did another temporary extension with 2 more inches. Test drive was quick but seemed to improve greatly. I will eventually make a perminante Mount.
    Thanks All.
     
    kevinrevin likes this.
  23. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I intended to ask if the Super Bell is a tube or I-beam. The tube axle is designed for a 4-bar setup, NOT split 'bones. Even hairpins are a bit forgiving, offering a smidgen of flex yet still not kosher for a street-driven rod.
     
  24. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,394

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Maybe your front shackles are hanging a little low.
    They should be at 45 degrees if possible.
    Hard to see yours, but I am guessing they are not at 45.
    Panhard bar if not level can cause some sideways movement.
    Even on some factory cars I have driven with a panhard bar in certain situations you could feel the sideways push.
     
  25. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 9,214

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Firstly I'd check that the frame is square and measure lengths on both sides as well as diagonals. I'd then check that both front and rear axles are square in the frame and centred side to side. Next check diagonals of both axles and wheelbase, note any discrepancies between measurements. Lengths should be the same side to side; diagonal measurements should also be the same from side to side. Suspension works better in parallelograms or triangulated. Pictures are worth a thousand words! Steering arms, shackles, axles not centred, staggered wheelbase with offset axles; could be a plethora of issues and not one single issue.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019

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