i work in a cardiac unit and i put in pace makers and defibs. the older models did have issues with welding. they also had problems by micro waves. the new devices are not so sensitive. hold the gun as far away from your chest as possible. i just put a device in my friend and he has been welding for the last year now with no problems. if anyone has any specific concerns pm me i would be happy to help out. i have contact with the factory reps every day.
I did some welding today and used the plasma cutter no problem but the electric drill when by my chest in a tight spot does effect me doc said pace maker reverts back to its setting in micro seconds
Ive had cell phones get erased when using my gas welder. I placed it on top of the welder and just like that its was cashed.
I have been a cardiac electrophysiologist for 30 years. We are the cardiologists specializing in rhythm disorders and are most familiar with the devices relevant to this thread: pacemakers and defibrillators. I also raced in supergas until 2 years ago, when I realized it took me too long to get up off the ground. One must understand the issues at hand and how welding might adversely influence a device, whether a pacemaker or defibrillator. Pacemakers function to provide an appropriate heart rate when your natural pacemaker is failing and your heart rate is too slow AND causes symptoms. If your heart rate falls below the pacemaker's "lower rate limit" (LRL), it will start pacing. As long as your rate is above the LRL, the device will NOT pace. This device behavior is a feature known as "sensing". As long as a percieved beat is sensed and is occuring above the LRL, pacing will not occur. A defibrillator is entirely different from a pacemaker. It's function is to shock the heart out of a lethal arrhthymia known as ventricular tachycardia or fibrillation; both rhythm abnomalities operate at heart rates exceeding 200 beats per minute: too fast to allow production of a normal blood pressure (or one that permits maintenance of consciousness). Either arrhythmia is the cause of a cardiac arrest (erroneously referred to as a heart attack) and you will be dead within minutes if the arrhythmia is not terminated with the shock. Sensing function is also critical to the defibrillator because it is how it knows what the heart rate is and when it exceeds a critical value (i.e 200 bpm), it charges and delivers. From our standpoint, welding involves the production of a "signal" that can be "seen" by the device. The signal is very high frequency, whatever you welder puts out. If your pacemaker "sees" the signal (which is now called noise), the pacemaker will interpret it as a bonafide heart beat, and if you are pacemaker dependent (meaning you can't live without the pacing), we've got a problem. The noise will "inhibit" the pacemaker because it is interpreted as native heartbeats. No pacing could spell big problems. But if you aren't pacer dependent, we don't have a problem. If your defibrillator sees the signal, the same thing happens and because the frequency of the welding noise is high, the defibrillator will think you're in ventricular fibrillation and will start to charge and deliver a 30-40 joule shock that really hurts. That was avoidable. However, if either device DOES NOT SEE THE WELDING NOISE, nothing ever happens. Nothing. That means there is a lot of hand-wringing going on out there. Most of the time, the device doesn't see any noise. So how do you know if your device is able to "see" the noise? Before answering that, I would offer simple advice: if you are pacemaker dependent or have a defibrillator don't weld? If you have a pacemaker and aren't pacer dependent, it is unlikely to be an issue. If your job depends on welding, I think it is perfectly reasonable to find out if your device is even capable of seeing the noise. If it doesn't, you don't have a problem. Many times I have gone to a patient's house or work with the device rep and a programmer, had the patient weld for 3-5 seconds -enough to establish if the noise is detectable. If not, no problem. If noise is seen, problem. Your device can be reinterrogated anytime in the device clinic and be able to disclose if welding "noise" was ever detected, and, if so, you should think twice if you are pacer dependent or have a defibrillator, also called an ICD. Unfortunately, most doctors don't give a shit about welding, much less racing. Also, if you are the CEO of Medtronic, Boston-Scientific or St. Jude (now Abbott), the last thing you want to invite is a lawsuit over whether it was OK to weld. They will always opt for the NO answer. One last comment: all pacemakers pace. Not all defibrillators are set up to provide pacing but can be programmed to do so if your doctor thinks you need pacing IN ADDITION TO the functions provided by a defibrillator. Stick welding may involve more current, therefore more likely detectable noise, than MIG or TIG.
Just had a pacemaker implanted October 3rd. Talked to cardiologist and factory representative of manufacturer (Biotronik) with this concern. Both told me no problem. The only restriction the doc put on me is large magnetic fields, like you would find at a dam with hydroelectric generators. Check with your doctor no matter what you read anywhere.
supergas, thanks for that explanation. I am on my second defibrillator/ICD/ jump-start-box (the batteries do not last forever). Skilled cardiologists have twice rescued from from swirling down the toilet. In a previous career, I tested devices that produced electro-magnet radiation. Welding produces electromagnetic radiation. Pacemakers and defibrillators have wires that go from the lump under your skin to designated spots around your heart. They are measuring very small electrical signals generated by your heart. NOTES: 1. These wires also act as antennas, and receive the electromagnetic radiation generated by the arc. Not only could you get false signals received by the device, if the received signal is too strong, it could permanently damage the device (remember the "MICROWAVE IN USE" signs). I suspect that the modern devices are less sensitive to damage from electromagnetic radiation, but have no good information. 2. The strength of electromagnet radiation decreases by the square of the distance from the source of electromagnetic radiation. For instance, I back off a few feet when someone is arc welding and try NOT hold my variable speed drill against my chest when drilling (The variable speed produces pulses). I heard about a rancher who burned out 2 devices while stick welding. 3. Carefully read the instructions that come with the device. The instructions for my first jump-start-box contained the phrase "...enough power to flash a 37 Watt light bulb." You are not going to hold a good welding bead if it goes off... EDIT: See sbcMike's post above - more good info - much more current than mine.
Man. Interesting idea, but i dont think there is enough voltage or amperage in that tiny battery to weld with.
This may be a little peripheral. I bought a 220 MIG welder and plasma cutter and hooked them up to my power panel in the garage. When I tested them, they operated with a weird noise. After some examination I realized that the 220 connection had a loose-intermittent ground. I fixed that. But later I discovered that the electronic control module for our fireplace (which was on the other side of the wall) had gone bad. Replacing the module fixed the fireplace (never told the wife about the loose ground because the module was expensive). My point is that a faulty or deteriorated connection could cause unintended problems that normally may not occur in a proper install. Just one more thing to check out. don
I did a lot of research before I had my defibrillator/pacemaker installed in April. When the time came for the install I heavily questioned the devise rep and the surgeon who installed the devise. Both assured me that if I followed manufacturers recommendations that I could continue to fabricate chassis in my shop for customers. It was very scary when after the recovery time my wife and I went to the shop to strike the first arc. I gathered some steel scraps arranged them on the table, fired up my tig set the amps to the recommended 160 amps stepped on the foot pedal and struck the arc and welded a couple of beads with no problems. Since that time I have done 6 customer chassis with no problems. Understand I just tack the chassis together and have for the last 30+ years had a certified tig welder do the finish welding. I was discouraged from using my Plasma cutter and since my Mig is an older model I haven't tried it yet.
If you have concerns, (and you should have if you are an implant guy), do what @krylon32 did, ask the manufacturer, ask your doctor, and do not get your advice from the HAMB.
For what it’s worth, some Medtronics devices allow “welding under 160 amps” in their literature / websites.
I believe a box of matches would solve the problem rather than have to rely on an electronic control module
supergas that's more info than what I got from the Medtronics rep, she and my pacemaker doctor both pretty much said follow the pamphlet. I'm 100% paced, no heartbeat without it, I have done a couple small welds and it was picked up on my pacemaker readings, then got the talk from the doctor. Bluntly she said you know the position you're in, why are you screwing around. When I ask about continuing drag racing it was left at, give it a try and see how it goes, all I know is the last 5 years has pretty much sucked, but...I'm still alive thankfully.
Ya know, if i was you id be wearing an aluminum vest around my heart. Maybe even a hat to keep stray emp’s from shutting down the pacemakers.
All good advice guys. I think the very first thing would be to contact the suppliers of your pacemaker, there are many different types of pacemaker designed very differently, to help solve various cardiac problems. Find out what kind of susceptibility to radio frequency interference your specific pacemaker has. Forget the lead shirt, lead is to stop X rays and nuclear radiation, not radio frequencies. A Faraday cage is what you need, which needs to be electrically conductive. Its not the type of thing you can just go out and buy at your local men's wear store ! About the closest thing you might be able to actually find is a chain mail vest. These are worn to protect from a knife attack. Far from ideal, but its about the only type of electrically conductive body covering that is practical to wear, and more or less readily available.
The Jalopy Journal
