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Technical Early flathead V8

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Colton Bates, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    Hey I'd there anyone out there that can give me info on early V8 flatheads, I found one that's interesting, but I'm questioning it because of the factory aluminum heads and a few other things I noticed, any help is appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. You came to the right place,,,there is an abundance of knowledge here.
    I am new to Flatheads,,,so I will be watching this as well.

    Tommy
     
  3. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,027

    19Fordy
    Member

    Join Fordbarn and ask all the questions. You'll get answers.
     
    LOU WELLS and warbird1 like this.
  4. How about a lot of pictures? Cell phone quality is fine.

    Just a few random thoughts.

    Identification of the early flatheads is best approached in terms of the block. There is an unbelievable amount of interchangeability for the accessories over the years. Count the number of head studs.

    1) If there are 17 studs it is a V8 60 used in vehicles between 1937 and 1940. This engine was also used in the French built Simca in the sixties but I don’t know what occurred between these two periods. Look for casting numbers and stamped steel water jackets in the side of the block. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.

    2) If there are 21 studs the block was built 1932 to 1938. The transition to 24 studs was late in 1938. Check the water petcocks on the front of the block next to where the lower hose from the radiator enters either an inlet fitting (1936 and earlier) or the water pump (1937 and later). It the petcocks point straight down it is a 1932 block. If the block is not a 1932 next look for a vent from the crankcase area out through the front corner of the oil pan. If there is no vent the block is 1933-34. If there is a vent it is 1935 or later. As a matter of interest, the 1936 engines were the first to use insert bearings. Both insert and babbit bearings were used throughout 1936. The insert bearing engines can be identified by LB cast at the top of the left front face of the block or by the letters LB stamped into the surface where the intake manifold attaches. Some engines were not stamped and in other cases people tried to inflate the price of their blocks by stamping LB into them when they were sold. Be careful. Now check for the location of the water pumps. If the water pumps mount on the block the engine is 1937 or later. All engines beginning in 1937 were inserts. Frequently you will encounter a 1937 block with factory block off plates held on by two bolts over the water pump passage at the front of the block as it was common for Ford dealers to install this engine as a replacement in the earlier cars. Of course there will be slight transition periods at model change over with the older blocks usually going into the commercial vehicles. There may be subtle differences between the 1933-34 and the 1935-36 engines but I am knowledgeable enough about these years to know what they are. The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will also help identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.

    3) If there are 24 studs the engine was produced between 1938 and 1953 (1954 in Canada). If the distributor is mounted on the front of the block the engine is late 1938 through 1948 (1947 for trucks). If the distributor comes up at an angle and appears more like a modern distributor it is a 1949 (1948 for truck) through 1953 (1954 in Canada). The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will further identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.

    4) There are a lot of additional foreign and industrial applications of these engines but the preceding covers the domestic US automobile production.


    Also see: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25301

    Charlie Stephens
     

  5. Wow Charlie! Very impressive, I’ve learned a ton just by reading your answers! Thanks so much.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  6. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 5,331

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Charlie, that was very well done. Concise and easlity understood. Great value to the new-comer...
     
  7. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

     

    Attached Files:

  8. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    I'm trying to get a few pictures on but I'm kinda tech inabled so it might take a sec
     
  9. V8-60
    Al.
     
    warbird1 likes this.
  10. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    Is it worth messing with, or are there parts accessable?
     
  11. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    Since it has the crank mount flange for a fan, does that make it a '40? Did the '39 60's come in a Deluxe model?

    I also see a fan mount up on the generator, but those are very easily changeable.
     
  12. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    This is what I have of it, I was confused about the stub count, I've heard of the 21&24 stud but never a 17 stud and with the aluminum factory heads, is it worth getting ahold of, and what's it's value? Oh and can you do anything with the ignition?
     

    Attached Files:

  13. I would pass on it. Remember the old saying, "You can't beat cubic inches". The V8 60 only has 136 cubic inches. The 85 had between 221 and 255 cubic inches. Speed equipment is expensive and hard to find for the V8 60.

    Here is a site you might find interesting: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm
    The owner of this site is a member of the HAMB.


    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
    warhorseracing likes this.
  14. partsdawg
    Joined: Feb 12, 2006
    Posts: 3,503

    partsdawg
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minnesota

    There is a V8-60 fan club. Betting they will be posting soon.
     
  15. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    I'm looking to put together a traditional model A, I don't know if that helps any arguments.
     
  16. The stock Model A engine (and the Model B that followed) had 200 cubic inches. That beats 136. Speed equipment is available. My first choice would be a banger or any V8 85. The V8 60 would come in a poor third. Attached is a picture of a V8 60 in a Model T and several Model A pictures.

    Charlie Stephens
    IMG_0342.jpg IMG_3382.jpg IMG_4031.jpg IMG_6292.jpg IMG_6301.jpg IMG_6322.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  17. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    I guess the question is why would you choose the four banger over the over the 60hp
     
  18. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    Sorry I missed part of you last post Charlie, I would prefer the V8 look but this 60ho motor popped up for trade and again I didn't know enough on it to make the decision quite yet.
     
  19. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 3,883

    rusty valley
    Member

    the 60hp motors are sought after by the old midget racers and boat crowd. the best was the 1940 with an all iron block, as the early models have "tin" sides on the water jackets. they are cute as the dickens, but thats about it. a friend had one in a model a, again, cute, but not too peppy
     
  20. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    The owner told me that was the story actually that it came out of a midget.
     
  21. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,483

    deucemac
    Member

    I worked with a mechanic that worked in a dealership when the V860 was new. He said it was the only engine he could change spark plugs while running and not notice a loss in power!
     
  22. Colton Bates
    Joined: Feb 8, 2019
    Posts: 33

    Colton Bates

    Outta curiosity what is one worth? And is the any interchangeable parts between the models
     
  23. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
    Member

    They kept quite a few Model A's from getting a speeding ticket.
     
    66fora69er likes this.

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