Hot Rods Just noticed this last night.

... there is another way to fix that.

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Ready ?

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Here ya' go ...



I'm sorry ... but, you're welcome !!

 

...though I do have a spare 1955 265 that may not get used if someone were to want to go vintage, jus sayin

(don't, just fix the flathead)

 

I don't think so because there wasn't any under the cap. I think he used it as thread sealer. I'm just glad it wasn't another broken stud.

 

Don't be sorry it's okay I understand. That motor is cool and more reliable, just not for what I'm doing. I did almost buy a 1930 Model A with a small block but didn't because I've had so many and love the look of the Flathead. Even in the worst case scenario if I needed a new motor I would still go with a Flathead. Even with the B.S. I've been finding I'm still happy with my choice. The only thing I wish is it was a 32 coupe with a 50s Mercury Flathead. Maybe next time.

 

Oh I will fix the Flathead and like it!

 

Thanks for the advice. I will be taking my time and not taking any short cuts. Luckily I have someone with a lot of experience to help me or should I say do it for me. Also I have to take off both heads because the beat threads on the spark plug holes are on the opposite side from the one with the broken stud. I talked to my friend about the Heli coils today and he said the same thing as you. So I'll be doing all the plug holes not just the damaged ones. Thanks again.

 

I have played with only a couple of flatties but this is what I found
Pulling down my 59ab you could feel the studs giving before they snapped .
Tried heating them , soaking them, hitting them, swearing at them , whispering to them but some just
let go . You couldn't even say they snapped it was like the studs were soft.
So then I tried the weld a nut to the top of the stud method but as the stud were snapped flush with the top of the block and not much stud to work with I found this unsuccessful, couldn't find a video of this method working on a flathead .
So now the block is sitting in the corner until I get back to it, like has been mentioned getting the drill centre in the stud when you go to drill the stud out is good to aim for.
I had read somewhere of dudes blowing studs out with an oxy/acy torch but you would want to have big balls to go down that road!
On my rebuilt 8ba I used studs with permatex/aircraft type sealant on the studs but they still weeped coolant ( also weeped coolant from the rear of the head gaskets)
So pulled heads and used a loctite white sealant on studs and some gasket spray sealant on the new head gaskets and that seems to have worked.
Just one other thing, its not recommended to clean out the threads for the studs with a regular tap
as it will make the studs "loose" in the block.

 

Sorry to here about your bad luck. I'm hoping I'll have better luck because they are not stock studs. So not 70years old but I'm sure it's not going to be easy.

 

"Your moves may vary", or some such.
Actually, I 'saved' many expensive 356 Porsche heads with cracks/mangled/pulled out threads over the years of 1955-1970, and NEVER with heli coils! Not even on Volkswagens.
The 'insert' method is by far the best, in that the insert is 'Tee-shaped', meaning they are steel, with a flange on top to give the spark plug gasket a seat. (not a twisted, sharp-edged 'IF' to come unwound or just leak between the end coil and aluminum head surface)
These insert sets include a combination reamer/tap (the outside thread size of the insert) and 4 inserts proper.
I never was confident with flathead aluminum heads, when I started using them I was an apprentice mechanic, at the drags every weekend, and at the clubhouse during week nights, MANY spark plug changes in those days...(no HEI, or MSD ignitions) Soft aluminum is NOT the property of steel nuts. But they ran steel spark plugs in-and-out, nonetheless.)
"HELP!" is a revolving rack of parts/tools in every NAPA store. The insert kits are there, specify 3/8", 1/2", or 5/8" for insert depth. (refer to Champion H-10 spark plugs for thread depth, also the spark plug bore depth in head)
These kits are NOT expensive.

 

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the fact that there is a stick welding rod that will not stick to the cast iron block but will stick to steel. It works great when the broken bolt or stud is flush or below the deck, you weld to the broken part, building it up until you can weld a flat washer on it, then you weld a nut on that is almost as big as your washer. As soon as you get the nut welded, you douse it with penetrating oil, then hit it with a impact wrench. Most times it will walk right out first time, sometimes it takes two or three efforts. I took 8 1/2” bolts out of my farm tractor using this method, most of them were broken below deck.

I can’t remember what the name for these rods is, but a welding supply will have them. Be forewarned though, they are expensive and sold each! I went through 15 or 16 on those 8 bolts, but part of that was learning how to use them.

 

I was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it!


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My moves have varied quite a bit since I started this thread. Giving the spark plug a good place to seat makes a lot of sense and the insert method does seem better for that reason. Some of the kits I saw were like $250 bucks if you know of cheaper ones let me know. Also you and anyone interested should check out this video on YouTube. Thread Insert Death Match. Very interesting video. Defiantly worth watching.

 

I'm going to concede that Atwater Mike's insert method is probably superior to heli coils for spark plug threads, mainly because of the flange at the top to give a positive sealing seat for the plug gasket.
But if you have to end up actually drilling head studs out, then for that I like the helicoils better simply because they don't require the hole to be as large as it does an insert.

 

Put my car in storage today. Glad to see it out of the elements. The storage place lets you work on them there so hopefully I'll have time between now and Monday to get the heads off. Here's a few more pictures of it.

 

Kool car, I like it.

 

Thank you.

 

As a retired Auto Shop teacher, you can imagine that I have dealt with more than my share of broken bolts/studs and stripped threads.
First of all, you have the right attitude about fixing it.
You have two separate problems to deal with. Don't worry about the spark plug threads until you have both heads off and fix the stud situation(s). The procedure I used with students includes many of the methods already suggested and a few more.
If you can get your nuts off (heh, heh) then you can lift the heads off and work on what's left.
You can try turning them off but DO NOT exceed the installation torque. A low torque impact wrench might also serve to loosen them. Penetrating oil may help, but I have found that it rarely does.
If they won't come off that way you can do one of two things:
You can split the nuts or heat cycle them. A nut splitter (if there's room) or cold chisel can be your friend here,
To heat cycle the nuts:
Get the acorn caps off and use a stick welder by grounding the block, near the stud, and clamping the stinger to the nut.
Set the welder to 100 amps and flip the switch just until the nut gets red hot. Let it cool until you can touch it.
Repeat twice more.
You should be able to remove the nuts. Now, use your impact wrench to try to rattle them off. You don't want to use the Baddest MFR impact you can find. You are not trying to twist them out with torque. You are trying to get their attention. My dad would say, "worrying them out." A 3/8" air, or even a cordless impact should be enough.
Since you have at least one bolt instead of a stud/nut, you can use the heat cycle trick on those as well. If you can't clamp the stinger directly to the bolt head, use a regular stick welding rod. Just let the rod heat up and transfer the heat to the fastener.
Now that you have all the nuts & bolts out of the way, definitely use a transfer punch to locate the center of each one.You may not need the center, but if you do, it's much easier to use the head as a guide for the punch.
NOW, lift the heads off. YEA!
To remove the remaining studs use the heat cycle method to loosen them in the block. This can be done with an arc welder or oxy/acetylene torch. Remember do the heat/cool at least 3 times. Don't try to turn them out when there is any color to them. Vise Grips, a stud remover tool, or double nutting the stud will all work.
Now deal with any studs or bolts that are broken off.
If they are protruding do the washer/nut weld method. Heating the offending part is just one more thing to help you.
If they are recessed, you need to drill. (now aren't you glad you center punched the broken ones?)
Use your transfer punch marks to REALLY put a center punch mark in the bastard.
Drill a small hole (1/8" to 3/16") down through the center of the bolt. It might help to have a helper keep you perpendicular to the head surface. You want to go all the way through the bolt. Step up the drill bit size and drill again. When you get close to the minor diameter of the thread switch to a left hand bit. You can heat cycle the hollow bolt before going too far. If everything goes just right, the left hand drill should catch, and back the broken bolt out.
Now here is the part where I expect to get some backlash.
When you get to the point where you might hit the threads, you can use an easy out. You have to have ALL the meat out of the bolt first. Tap the easy out in just enough to have it bite into the bolt. If you really drive it in, you will spread the broken bolt into the block threads making removal even harder. GENTLY unscrew the offending part with the easy out.
The reasons that easy outs break:
1) Too small a hole and easy out (due to fear of damaging threads) due to not centering drill and/or drilling straight.
2) Not drilling all the way through the broken bolt (a bottomed out bolt wedges the threads together like a jam nut)
3) Not breaking the bond (rust/corrosion) between internal and external threads.

Remember the Mr. Schneider #1 rule:
"HEAT IS MAGIC"

 

Thank you for all the useful information. I'm hoping I can get the heads off without too much trouble. Keep your fingers crossed for me. Once I do I'm going to take the ''if it ain't broke don't fix it approach". Although I do plan on taking care of all the spark plug holes even though only 2 have issues. It seems like thing to do since I'll have both heads off. If I was rebuilding the engine I would change all the studs but until then I'll be only changing the 2 with issues. I will be putting all new nuts and caps. The engine was running well before I had this problem so hopefully I don't get any surprises when I get the heads off. Once I get them off I'll be posting the progress.

 

Nice looking car, if nobody mentioned it before invest in a good stud removing tool, one that you can attach to a 3/4 braker bar. Kroil is the best penetrating oil on earth, buy a can. Good luck. Bob

 

Good advice from Gearheads above.

 

If you are going use a cold chisel to split any nuts it helps to grind the cutting edge at an angle. That way it tends not to "walk out" as you drive it into the nut. Drilling a small hole in the nut just outside of the stud threads also helps the angle cut cold chisel go straight down and split the nut.

 

Thanks. I have seen those stud removing tools. Also heard good things about Kroil. For now I'm going to run the studs I have for while. Hopefully a long while. When the day comes and rebuild my engine I'll be changing them then.

 

Hoping it doesn't come to that but thank you.

 

I agree.

 

Hello Stephen; as always there has been a lot of excellent tips and advice provided by fellow HAMBERS!! Always amazes me how much knowledge is out there that people are so willing to give! That being said, I personally have only used time-serts and have had good results. Not saying heli coils won’t work, just haven’t used one for that. If time-sert is the way you want to go, and are willing to pay for shipping and replace the Sert, I would gladly send you the kit I have. I’m in no hurry to get it back so you could put it on your “winter” to do list Let me know or PM me. Best of luck what ever you decide. Mike

 

WOW! Thank you so much for the offer. I really appreciate it. That is so nice of you. Once I get the heads off I have a machine shop that is going to take care of it for me. Just to be sure the holes get drilled straight. I also think I'm going to use Heli coil even though a few people here are not fans of them. I think for spark plug holes they will be more than enough. Plus after watching the Thread insert death match video on YouTube I have a lot more confidence in them. If anything changes between now and then I will definitely let you know. Check out that video if you have time it is really good and thank you again. I'm really loving it here on the HAMB and all the help everyone has been giving me.

 

Is that the right kit for your heads? Aren't they 14mm threads? Just saying it's worth checking before sending stuff cross country. Mart.

 

Good eye Mart!! And you are absolutely right! 18MM is for a 21 stud. I wasn't even thinking [obviously] about that. Well the offer still stands for anyone who can use it! And on a side note, this got me to thinking; maybe we should have a thread/forum where guy's and gal's could go to and see if anyone has a specific tool they could borrow for that one time job? Just as in Stephens situation, that one thing is sometimes cost prohibitive. And as we all know doing everything that you can keeps the cost of the project down. Just a thought!! Be safe everybody!!!

 

I'm surprised nobody has said to pull the heads, fix the studs and get another set of heads_?


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^^^^^^^^^^^When's the last time you priced a dcent set of aluuminum heads?