Ive done quite a few first starts waking up zombie engines. First I soak the cyls in a mix of diesel and auto trans fluid for at least a week. I pull the oil pan and make certain the pan is clean of sludge and the oil pump pickup screen isn't clogged. I always unhook the fuel pump and suspend a lawnmower gas tank and gravety feed the carb. The gas I use has 1/2 pint of outboard oil mixed with each gallon. I hook up a oil pressure guage. and spin the plugless engine until I get oil pressure. I also pull the valve covers to be certain all the valves are working properly. Only when I have a clean oil pan. oil pressure. gas in the carb. all valves working properly will I reinstall the plugs and hook up ignition and attempt a start up. And with the very rare exception I am successful in getting the old engines running. never ever try and use the old gas tank and fuel pump until they have been checked out.
It makes me cringe when I see anyone use starting fluid. That stuff is hard on the cyls pistons and rings.
I had a car with a 302 that sat for 13 years and couldn't get it to run steadily. If I poured gas into the carbs it would run until it was out of that fuel, but nothing more. I would fill the float bowls and fuel line, but it would just run for a short time. The I dug everything out of the trunk and there was a second fuel filter, at the tank, plugged solid. It said "replace every six months" on it. I'm sure it was installed 30 years and 40,000 miles ago. Changed the filter and it would run, until that filter would plug. Went thru many filters and two rounds of dropping the tank and flushing it out.
Ideally, cranking vacuum should be checked with the engine at operating temperature. But it won't hurt to test it on a cold engine. You do want to make sure your gauge is connected to a source of full manifold vacuum. A port in the intake manifold is preferable. Some vacuum ports on the carburetor may only supply ported or off-idle vacuum readings. Back out the idle speed screw and make sure the throttle plates are completely closed. Lightly close off the idle mixture screws and close or cap off all vacuum hoses or pipes to the intake manifold. Disable the ignition system. Then crank the engine over and watch the vacuum gauge. It's best to do this with a fully charged battery to ensure normal cranking speed. Even with a cold engine you should see a steady 3" to 5" of vacuum.
watch the videos I posted a link to. when Jeff hookes compressedair up to the cyl and taps on the closed valves with a dead blow hammer. It makes a safisfying BLAM BlAM noise. that blows the loose crud from the cyls and valve seats. Knock the porcealn from a spark plug and weld or braze a air fitting to it.
Don’t confuse CCA with a fully charged battery. Make sure your battery is fully charged. Ignore CCA for now. Any car battery should start a stock style 289. SPark
Thanks for the advice old wolf, I did drop oil pan because when draining I found some sludge so I pulled it and cleaned it, I also bypassed the old fuel system I didn’t however run and diesel through it or let it sit, I will probably go back and prime the engine
Ben, I have shied away from posting on this thread because....... Well, I think there’s too many cooks. (Too many cooks spoil the soup.) You have gotten some good info and unfortunately some that borderlines on ludicrous. With this said I’ll sprinkle my bit of pepper. Honestly, I wonder if you have a real problem with this engine in the fist place? Or...... The problem may not be what you think it is. Firstly... If it has the compression readings that you say it does, the valves are working thus it’s pumping air. If it’s pumping air it’s drawing air. By pumping and drawing air.....it’s probably close to being in time. I think you are assuming too many things. That’s Ok..... most of us do and most of us learn that you let the engine tell you what’s wrong. These kind of things are nigh impossible to diagnose online especially with the limited info provided. I hate to see you go around and around. Locked up torque converter ????? Hard slow cranking??? How about trying to manually turn the engine. I can find a problem in 10 seconds by turning one ( manually turning the crank) with no tools if it has V belts. Simply hold tension on the belt and turn the fan. An engine in decent condition should turn with a Little effort..... not a lot of effort. Another way.... put a socket wrench or pull handle on the crank nut and turn it that way. I’m not trying to sound arrogant but I have been fooling with these for over 30 years and learned the hard way. Hard to turn.... nigh impossible to turn? It’s like the Chinese proverb... Sum-ting Wong. Then you find it and fix it. Do simple checks first before you dig in. The reason I suggested turning manually... that’s a simple test that tells a lot. Educate yourself. Online is the hard way. Digging in the engine in response to every online suggestions is the really hard way. Get a good book. Tom Monroe’s How to Rebuild the Small Block Ford is excellent. I’m sure there’s others but it helped me tremendously. I overhauled a ‘68 302 with it. It was by far the most used tool for that build. Arm yourself with good info and knowledge. This forum is great. There’s a wealth of knowledge here but it’s impossible to diagnose a problem like yours....,it’s just too general. It could be anything. These guys are great on specifics. Let the engine tell you it’s problem rather than assuming or taking for gospel the assumptions of others. Educate yourself in how to diagnose and how to understand what the engine is saying to you. Once you find that specific problem (there could be many) ... Articulate that to get specific feed back.
F-one, thanks for the input and surely noted! I agree with you it’s something very minor I’m missing or chasing something wrong, I have manually turned this engine by the crank and it rolls over fairly smooth with some effort not easily but not forcefully either and any other ford I’ve worked on which isn’t many has about the same resistance when turning by hand so I didn’t think anything of that, and this one having been sitting for 15 years I would imagine may be a little tougher than normally due to fact of just sitting?
From what I have read you have compression and fuel with starting fluid that leaves spark under compression at the right time. One other thought when you did a compression test did it continue to up or just move one time?
Yes it kept bouncing as the cylinder was raised, and fuel to the intake yes, but not getting through the intake into the cylinder from what I can determine, no smell of fuel in cylinder or on plug
If you pour some fuel down the carb, will it fire? You can just push down on the accelerator pump and give it a couple squirts. Have you cleaned or rebuilt the carb or tried a different carb on it. Sitting for 15yrs could of rusted and gummed up the passage ways. Another smoke machine would help you out was well to find a leak if there is one.
Fuel -compression & spark all at the correct time and the engine will run. One or more of those 4 things is not correct.
Understood on all 4 and the fuel part is not there to the cylinder I can fill carb float bowl or even hit with either, and it doesn’t make it into the cylinder
Let’s review...... 1. 289 302 heads verified spark and timing. 2. Each cylinder shows compression 100-120 PSI.....Engine tends to turn slow off of starter motor. 3. Engine sat 15 years.... valves open and close 4. Zero vacuum off of intake 5. No vacuum 6. Installed 351 cam..... compression slightly increased with wet test. 7. No fuel to cylinders 8. Headers clear no physical blockage.... engine tends to turn slow off of starter 9. Distributor is correct 10. Intake was cracked 11. Plugs seem good not fouled 12. Transmission claimed to have bad converter.... no reliable gear selector.... no drive shaft.... stated Jalopy..... Slow Cranking 13 Crank speed slow 14 Crank speed seems slow 15 Transmission in gear? 16 Compression slightly higher..... wet test 17 Fuel to carburetor verified 18 Cleaned oil pan...... By passed Old fuel system 19. Engine turns OK manually 20. Engine cranks but does not start 21. No smell of fuel on plugs 22 Fuel or ether does not make it to cylinders.... Read and think on this^^^^^^
Common denominator ..... Cranks slow.... no Fuel to cylinder If you are using a factory Ford intake without the proper spacer and gasket, it will not pull air through the carburetor. Massive seal compromise at the base of the carburetor..... Remember Motorcrafts and Autolites were hollow bases carburetors plus the factory intake was as well. These require a proper spacer below the carburetor.
Is the starter motor tired? What is the condition of the primary leads? (Cables) Are they big enough? Do you have adequate grounds ? Make sure the carb base is sealed correctly...... Diagnostic test......... Use Caution!!!! Prime the plugs. Dip each plug in gasoline..... replace. Secure open container of gasoline..... Try to start engine. With the plugs primed. It should do something if the timing is close.
A few voltage drop measurements at strategic locations along the starting circuit wiring while cranking will make it very clear if the battery has enuff suds, and whether the cables, connections and grounds are ALL "good" . Actually the voltage drop testing is pretty much the ONLY way to test that stuff. Cleaning, tightening, throwing in new parts won't do it. A thoughtful series of voltage drop tests will identify WHICH connections need cleaning, WHICH cables are undersize or internally damaged, and so on.
I believe the starting circuit is ok it’s getting enough volts/amperage to turn starter and to give sufficient spark, at least enough to turn the crank to give 100-120 psi in the compression
Ben send us some pic of the engine, maybe we can spot something. Seems like we’re just spinning our wheels now! Kinda like F-one said........Som Tim Wong ! Bones
A guy had a 51 ford flathead. cranked slow wouldn't start. asked me to look at it. His ground cable was attached to one of the bolts holding the radiator. and I seen a spark come from his throttle linkage. ran the ground to the engine block and it started as quick as you turned the key. You seem to believe you have a carb & fuel problem. Its a fact most carb problems turn out to be ignition.
Still not at the garage I’ll be there shortly then I’ll post some pictures, the starter solenoid is ground to the firewall which probably could use a good scuffing to get dust etc from in between it and the solenoid and the firewall is tied into the battery ground on intake bolt
Ed stole my idea. I have seen the reverse camshaft on a SBC. Bent all the valves. Are you sure it doesn't have bent valves?
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