Technical Steering geometry question

I have cross steering with an Ibeam axle. There is a tie rod that connects the 2 steering arms. The drag link that connects the pitman arm to the right side steering arm is almost parallel to the tie rod and it works great. BUt if I were to move the steering box rearward about 6" to make clearance for an engine swap, the drag link would be at an angle. Would that be an issue?

Thanks,
Joel

 

Should be no issue whatsoever, but is your tie rod going to clear your engine?

 

That's a good question. I hadn't considered that, and I don't know the answer. Thanks

 

Moving back 6" is quite a bit. A slight angle off from being parallel would be acceptable.

 

6" is quite a bit, I don't think I'd go more, but you should be ok.

 

I seem to remember that to solve a similar problem in the early '60s, instead of changing the steering geometry, some actually put a hole through the oil pan for the draglink(it might have been a different steering component). Seems like it might have been on early Chevy II?? Squirrel may know...

 

There were some mopars that did this also.

 

Better have a pretty big oil pan sump if you want to put a 2" diameter (or larger) tube through it. The Mopars ones were mostly done when you wanted or needed an 8 quart oil pan in the basically stock chassis where the only way you got that big of pan was to move forward and down. The tube through the pan needs to clear the oil pickup tube, and the spinning rods and crankshaft.

Another possibility is to move the oil pan sump and pickup tube, it may be possible that an oil pan for your motor in a truck or van might have a more rearward sump without having to modify the oil pan itself. A lot of the circle track guys would turn the sump sideways and have tubes through the sump to bolt the pan to the block. Gene

 

Thanks for the ideas, but the problem I am contemplating solving does not involve the oil pan. I have an early Hemi in my car now. I'm going to switch out the steering box from the heavy iron Saginaw 525 to an aluminum corvair box. At sometime in the future, I might switch out the early Hemi for a Gen 2 426 Hemi. The oil pump on the left front side of the block sticks out so much that it interferes with my current steering box location. So I'm thinking if I'm going to go to the trouble of switching steering boxes, maybe I should locate the new one into a place that would allow either engine to fit. Just in case I ever decide to switch.

 

This is not my motor pictured, but you can see that big old oil pump on thefront lower left of the block. That's what I would be dealing with.

 

31 dodger has some corvair boxes for sale.

 

Unless that is in a T bucket or real light chassis you are better off to keep the 425 box. Guys ran into that issue back in the 70's when they tried to put Corvair boxes in cars that were just too heavy on the front end for the box. They have been T bucket only for so long that most folks forgot that issue and a lot of the guys who had to deal with it are gone now.

 

Electric steering ?

 

I have used R&P on 6 different builds, 3 were indp/Corvair front, 3 were Ford/Chev beam axle. Recent source were early VW GTI, mounted to the Beam.

 

Isn’t that oil pump a thing of Beauty!
Mopar,,,yes I like them a lot,,,,Lol.

Tommy

 

Hey Joel,
I was admiring that 426 pic again and I noticed the oil pump boss does not look like mine.
Is that a world products block?
Or Mopar performance?
Do you have more pics?
Beautiful engine none the less!

Tommy

 

Tommy, I just snagged that pic off the internet. It looks like the boss on the later, pre-World mopar performance blocks.

On the steering box, I'm looking for weight savings, that is the only reason to switch away from the 525. This car has no fenders to hide stuff under, and I am trying to keep it as old school as possible, with reluctant concessions to that ideal only for safety, weight, and speed. So rack and pinion is out.

My car is lighter than a corvair, and has no trunk in the front, so the corvair box should be strong enuff. I'm not trying to get 100,000 miles out of it.

 

The "parallel" rule is more applicable to viewing from the front, which merely says the drag link should be parallel to the road (as should the tie rod). A sloped (in the vertical plane) drag link would result in bump steer, which would be more severe the greater the slope. What you propose should be fine, assuming the axle is well controlled against fore and aft movement. The steering will be a bit more asymmetric (i.e., the steering wheel may need to be turned 30 degrees for a given left turn, and 35 degrees for a similar right turn. Doubt that you would even notice this. (You probably have this to a degree now, if the pitman arm is not parallel to the steering arm at the wheel (looking down), which is not parallel to the car's centerline, to achieve Ackerman steering.

You could think about increasing the pitman arm 6 inches, which means you would need a proportionately slower steering box, to keep steering effort the same.

 

You know there is a cast iron version of the Corvair steering box that may provide a little more strength than the aluminum version while still weighing much less than the 525.

 

I don't think strength is a issue here. Joel's car is light. It's a proven street driven drag week car. Mine is to. These are the kinds of things I do to my cars with the corvair box. They have not failed me yet. I feel comfortable and safe using them. The front ends in these cars get hammered on regularly with no failures to date. View attachment 4454167 View attachment 4454168 View attachment 4454173 View attachment 4454167 View attachment 4454168 View attachment 4454173 View attachment 4454167 View attachment 4454168 View attachment 4454173

 

Awesome, Brian.

 

Joel, I've run a lot of Mopar big blocks in places they were never suppose to be installed. I fully understand the oil pump issue.
Lets say that over the years I've moved a lot of steering components from their original location.
Side to side height is more important to maintain then a front to back location, as long as you don't go too far forward or backward and create a less responsive steering. As the box moved backward, you will loose a little of the side to side leverage. The next biggest possible issue I see is creating a larger turn radius because your going to have to add length to your drag link to keep the steering centered. There may not be enough length added to make much difference, but its something that I would want to watch for. I guess the question is how much effect will moving the box back 6" cause, the answer is probably trial & error, cause I'm not smart enough to do the math.
In another thought, how many problems is relocating the steering box going to cause with your steering column? Gene

 

Good stuff, Gene. I have no issue with my steering column. The column itself ends on the cowl bar of the roll cage inside the car. Only the shaft extends through the firewall, then a u-joint, then a length of shaft to the steering box. So there's plenty of room