Old post but very interesting on this subject. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/flathead-cooling-tricks.273117/page-2
I’m just studying the pressure increase of heated water for my new boiler. Granted this is all new math and knowledge info for me but From 60f to 180f the pressure rises 13 psi. Transferable knowledge. Plain old straight water does have the highest rate of heat transfer. (The best at cooling) while 50/50 mix of antifreeze decreases the heat transfer rate by 30%. What that means for your hot rod,,,, you need 30% more radiator surface area to cool equally. More transferable knowledge,,, running 50/50 glycol mix in your radiant floor heat in your new shop means you need do SOMETHING 30% more to get the same heat transfer vs water. 30% More tubes, 30%, 30% more boiler or 30% more volume. Either that or 30% more redundant backup heating and circulation systems so straight water can’t freeze. Want one more? Ok you asked for it.... circulation of the water too fast or too slow thru the radiant floor tubes ( or your hot rod radiator) will not transfer heat ( out of your hot rod or into the building). Circulation too slow or too fast thru ( your hot rod engine) or the boiler will cause problems. Too slow circulation- in order to keep from destroying itself by over heating, the boiler heat short cycles while the circulation catches up. Too fast circulation and the boiler runs forever but never heats the water. The circulation rate GPM (hot rod water pump) needs to be just right and in balance.
Blues4U is correct on this subject. Engine companies such as Cummins have a whole lot at stake here. Cummins makes and markets a special cooling system cleaner through its Fleetgard division. There are different types of cleaners depending on what you are trying to accomplish. I’m absolutely certain that their engineers and chemists know and understand cooling systems better than I ever will. I have personally used their products on a variety of cooling system problems that affect things most of you guys have never been exposed to. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Here’s another opinion that I seem to gravitate to.... https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/269904/does-fluid-speed-affect-liquid-cooling/269907
My next question will be.....when I drain the vinegar from my radiator/system........where am I gonna dump it?!!!! NOT on the driveway (red sea all over again...stain)....NOT on my grass! vinegar makes a good weed/grass killer. It changes the acidity in the soil and PREVENTS(sometimes) re growth. Maybe in the street?! Vacant lot next door?! Think'in hard!! 6sally6
Flush it down the toilet. Assuming you're hooked up to city water, and not a septic system. The treatment facility will take care of it. This is the approved "Green" method of disposal for ethylene glycol antifreeze, believe it or not. If you pour it down a storm sewer or in the yard, it ends up in the waterways. It is a poison.
I think the Cummins products might be made by Old World Industries, the manufacturer of Peak products, as well.
Vinegar in the radiator seems to have worked!! I ended up flushing the heater with a garden hose and it looked like somebody was bleed'n to death! Once I got that flowing clear AND the radiator I believe I'm good. Just one final question...........since the engine uses a little oil and blows out a puff when I crank it (1/4 million miles no complaints) AND the residual smell of vinegar from the heater core, the question is..........How do I get rid of the vinegar & oil smell!! I'm not Italian and the truck smells like a tossed salad with vinegar & oil dressing! Jus kidd'in.............I like salad. 6sally6
That vinegar should stay in the cooling system. If you can smell it I bet you got a leak. Oooooooh yeah,,,, I said you had a leak back on the first page.
Well, you had better luck than I did! Back in the previous century, my second car had the rusty radiator water, like yours. I drained it, flushed it.....many times. I would pull the bottom hose so that it would flow out fast. Tried soap, radiator flush, everything! Still had brown water! Finally just gave up, as it never got hot, just looked bad. Glad you were successful! Bones
Great news. Yes you have a leak in your heater. Whatever you do...do not use radiator stop leak on this system. Fix it right.
This is a good place to put this. The "new" coolants have a different acid content/package in em. In a very over simplified description it's helpful with the electrolysis that occurs with dissimilar metals (iron block and aluminum heads and radiators) as found in newer cars. These new "permanent" antifreeze products will wreak havoc on old radiators made of copper, brass and lead/solder. One of my good classic car pals lost a $5000 honeycomb radiator to permanent antifreeze. Another insisted that I put some in his 34 Packard Eight. After a year of touring he had a small leak in an otherwise perfect radiator and it ate through the oil cooler allowing oil to get into the cooling system. Now some might get on here and report they've had zero problems and ran their cars around the world 6 times and still use it. Me? No thanks. I have 2 examples to draw from and I'll stick to the good ol green eth/glycol. Oh yeah, that oil cooler was a small honeycomb radiator that was kept under 65lbs of pressure for 3 weeks with no failure, no leaks. 3500 miles later it was junk from the permanent coolant. Your results may vary, tax n title extra, see your retailer for details, no purchase necessary, void where prohibited...
No no no. You will creating the same problem you’ve just eliminated. Either shut the line off feeding the heater or remove and repair it. Pissing in it may smell better than vinegar. I always thought vinegar smelled like cat pee.
I've been using vinegar as a flush lately myself. Works good. I left it too long in one of my Model A's, and it screwed up the packing in the water pump, but you wont have that problem. From now on I'll only leave it in for a couple of heat/cool cycles and then drain it. I have never bothered trying to neutralize it with baking soda, but I guess it wouldnt hurt. Its getting that time of year to back flush the heater core. I used copper tubing and an old water hose with the end cut off and I would flush back and forth in the normal direction of flow and then the reverse direction, until the water ran clear in both directions. Amazing the difference in the heat output when you get the heat transfer surfaces clean. I dont know if they even still sell it, but years ago one of the NAPA brand radiator flushes, the powder in the blue bottle, was Trisodium Phosphate. A basic solution , on the other end of the ph scale. I havent looked lately, but you used to be able to buy that at Home Depot. Boiler water chemistry used to use this, not sure if they still do or not. Good Luck
I've engaged in a similar debate on another site. To me the thing that seems to be forgotten in automobiles is that you don't necessarily have an inexhaustable supply of cool water at a constant temperature . There is a difference in the ability and possibly the surface area of the cast iron to pass btus to the coolant and the aluminum (or whatever) to pass those btus to the air. The ability to transfer the btus to the air (by the aluminum tubes) will change with outside air temperature, density,humidity,and speed. So in my humble opinion water can flow too fast or too slow in an automotive system because it needs to be subjected to air long enough to give up those btus. In a closed system there are limits to how many btus can be transferred as conditions change. In a system with an unlimited source of water at a cool temperature you can make water flow too fast if it's unregulated flow causes the temperature of the thing you are cooling to become too cold. That's why we have thermostats in cars. Now looking at it simply from the viewpoint of the water rather than the objects the water is heating or cooling (radiator/engine). An unlimited source of cooler water will always furnish more and more cooling as it's speed increases until the item being cooled reaches it's maximum transfer rate for that temperature coolant. More coolant speed (within reasonable bounds) won't lower the objects temp any further at that point......but from the waters viewpoint.....up to the point of the maximum transfer rate of the cast iron.....more water flow will offer more cooling. Hope that makes sense to someone besides me.
Really? I’m about to drain the radiator on our recently inherited 29 roadster so I can take it to a shop to be repaired for leaks. So the petcock valve is a PITA? Sounds like better to not mess with it and just drain through the lower hoses hu? Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Seems like they take forever to drain,and little chunks will clog them up. I've also had them twist off when corroded badly. I started just taking off the lower when I saw that done at a drag strip to drain and put cold coolant in between races It does make a big fast mess though!
Besides a nasty cooling system,you should also look up cavitation and electrolysis,electrical grounds, destroying gaskets and heater cores in cooling systems.
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