Projects Building for The Race of Gentlemen...someday

A few More TROG 2019

 

My definition of 'winning' right now is getting the car finished in time to make next years race, being accepted to race, and driving down the sand without mechanical issues (along with getting the car up there from Florida without problems, getting time off from work, finding a place to stay, etc...). While I would prefer not to 'lose', I also don't wanna stall out on the line, have a catastrophic failure of some sort, and/or crash. I'm fully aware that there are people out there that know a LOT more about the old speed equipment used than I do. I'm not going into this thinking that I'm going to blow the competition away....I have a LOT of work to do and it will certainly be a win just to get there. I didn't even get to go this year but I was smiling all weekend, working on the car, just thinking about it and watching older YouTube videos of past races.

I'm envious that you got to go this year and can't imagine how much fun it is to see, hear, smell, and touch all these old machines. I couldn't make it because I have students right now, I'm working towards qualifications as air supervisor, and again, my car is in the beginning stages of the build.

Do I want to win? Sure, who doesn't?!?! But will I be upset if I lose? Absolutely not. I've been around long enough to play with the hand that I was dealt and I'm ok with it. Plus, I think I've already hit the lotto with the fact that I have a 90 year old car sitting in my garage that's close to running!!! I've got a bunch of parts, a year to get ready, and a dream. If it comes true, I'll be in one of the pictures people post for next year, and that's fine by me

 

Wow, GREAT PICTURES!!! Looked like a nice day too. Gives me a lot of inspiration to get back out into the garage and get to work!!!

 

SUPER PRODUCTIVE Columbus Day weekend. Pictures to follow but work buttoned up as follows:

Door latch installation
Striker plate installation (doors finally close nicely)
Door hinge hardware finished
Wood body blocks installed
Body bolted down to frame
Windshield hinge freed up
Windshield frame bolted together
Top wood header bolted in place
Header cover installed and nailed
Windshield installed (no glass yet)
Sun visor installed and nailed
Trunk support slider and bolt installed
Interior wood aft of door pillars installed to include top cap finish piece connecting the tops and bottoms together, I can't remember what it's called
Trim piece under windshield installed
Dash panel removed, installed, removed and then installed again (long story)
Steering wheel column support bolted in
Top wood bolts snugged up
Quarter window wood installed
Rear window wood put together, will install today

Ok, now to the problems....I'm still in search of pictures of a '31 trunk latch and striker. I plan on thumbing through the pile of books I have as well.

My gas pedal just kisses the edge of the body as it comes underneath....is this normal?

Lastly, since the notching of the body sub rails, I've been trying to figure a way to make supports for the rear. Any ideas out there? Any pictures? The last wood block I've got under it sits just forward of the step on the frame. I do have an old rear bumper support section that I've been thinking of re-purposive, but I was on a roll with all the other stuff that I let it sit.

Ok, hope everybody else is getting work done as well!

 

Okay, I don't understand the Gas Pedal thing. I just can't picture it. So how about a picture of it? On the rear body mount. You made a patch in the body notch that has a vertical wall. I'd probably just make a bolt on bracket that bolts to the underside inside the spring crossmember and bolts to the vertical wall on the Body repair you made. In other words just an upside L to support the body bolted to the frame, no wood needed.

 

This is the gas pedal situation. I mean I could always cut a small notch but I'd rather not...its not terrible. I just thought that it would stop hitting once the shims were installed and the body bolted down.

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The actual contact wouldn't concern me much. For sure I would "NOT" notch that flange, it's kind of structural in keeping things where they belong. The throttle itself is a pretty wimpy piece to start with and just kind of hangs out there. All it could have taken to make the issue is when lifting the Body off to hook under the pad with the flange and bent it up before it let go. You may also have a bent piece of linkage that may be the issue. I'd wait till I had the floors pieces installed and once you see where wide open throttle is and how much space under the pad to the wood, adjust things as needed so pad goes to Wood or close to not stopping short of it. That should fix your contact at throttle closed issue.

 

P.S. If bending that arm ends up being the Fix do not use Heat to do it. Bend (adjust) it cold.

 

Does anybody have a picture of the bracket that goes under the windows on a 30-31 coupe? And does anybody else in the world have a pair of them for sale??? I seem to be missing mine.

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It's been a while but as I remember it the glass sets it a seal and just goes against the Body and the inner molding goes against the seal then the screws that hold the molding in also holds the Glass in place. I don't believe you have anything missing as part of the Body inner structure.

 

I've seen the edge of a bracket that screws into the lower part of the window wood and runs parallel with the sides of the seat.....plus my window wood has the screw holes and a discoloration where said bracket used to be...on the drivers side anyway. Does the seat attach to it as well by any chance?

 

There is what I call a package tray that goes from side to side and forward a bit right at the top of the seat back. Most of the time that part comes out so normal size people can get a seat in that we fit in. Probably what your seeing marks from. Here's a photo of a 30 I worked on several years ago. I don't remember much about it other than I removed the stock part and built the wood shelf along with a lot eof other stuff. Maybe it will tell ya something. I did not mount the Batt there and it did get moved latter. Wish I had a better photo to tell ya what those 2 screws are doing.

 

http://www.model-a-ford.com/images/proj_1/Proj_1_08.jpg

It's shown in this picture here. Hope you can see it. From the back lower corner of the window to the bottom rear corner of the door frame.

 

I see the one in your picture. I clearly don't know enough about a total stock Model A inner structure to say right or wrong. My guess is that yours is actually correct being this one has had a lot of hands on it that shouldn't have been allowed to do anything Automotive. Here is a photo of the other side showing the brace going the other direction like in the photo above. This was work done before the Coupe came to me. I only did the braces you see in front of the Gas Tank. That was done to get the Body back in clock so the Doors fit the body top to bottom.

 

Hmm. Weird. Maybe I can make one if I can't find anything. Thanks for the pictures as always!!

 

On my 29 it's just a "hat section" that is screwed into the wood under the window, and like the link you posted, it goes down at an angle. Mine was attached at the bottom of the B pillar wood with screws.

 

I was talking with a Friend that has done many Model A's and he believes the only thing that brace does is keep the upholstery panel from getting pushed out of place and over against the Body panel, nothing structural. Kind of looks that way to me also.

 

Oh wow, really?? So it's not needed, OK! Sounds good.

On another note, I got it running and driving today...

Zipped up and down the road a few times, hit the speed bump to test my welds, and all was great!

 

Right. Thanks Aaron! Proof!! Hahaha. I'd still like to see if I could snag a pair of old ones just to give it a little extra support in the mid-section....don't we all need that??!!?? I mean, if it's not a major support element, I could get away with it or just make a pair, but I'd like it to be as original as possible for TROG. Decisions, decisions.

 

I probably wouldn't worry about it unless your going to put a full interior in it. After all most Hot Rods are built as light as possible.

 

You can see the brace in my video. It's just attached at the top here, but you can see where it attaches at the bottom of the B pillar.

 

Good point.

 

Ok, looking for what you guys have done and what you've seen work vs what hasn't worked. I'm in the market for a 6.0 : 1 head and a downdraft intake....and also a new (old) exhaust manifold. At first I wanted to put on twin 97 carbs but some say that's too much. I already have a stromberg 81 (originally I thought it was a 97). Now I was thinking twin 81 carbs, but is that too much? Should I do a single 97 or twin 81s? I've got a line on two zepher intakes, just wondering if I should go with the twin or the single. Thoughts? Opinions?

Engine is fresh'ish. It was rebuilt a little over a year ago and ran for the first time since I've owned it...yesterday. Ran great. Purred like a kitten....with an updraft and an original...zenith? I honestly don't know, but looks original. I haven't looked into it too deeply because I've wanted to get a downdraft since day 1.

What am I NOT thinking of? Again, end goal is to race it and then drive it back and forth to work and to a show here and there.

 

I don't have a 4 banger of my own that I can drive yet. I do however have some friends that do. All 4 of them have non stock intake set ups. The only one that I consider "runs fair" has a 2 carb with 81's and only runs one of them live. It also in my opinion is way to fat. Barks and farts all the time and is hard starting. I couldn't live with that. It seems it's real easy to over do it with both Air intake and Fuel. I think it gets down to what Cam you have and how much compression your making and trust me it isn't much. Were I headed this way I'd get on the Model A link here and try to weed out the, try this stuff before I spent any $$$ on intakes and carbs. Personally I think a single 81 can be made to do the job just fine but haven't done it myself.

 

Here's a little tip for getting the rear a little lower (1.5"-4" depending) without cutting the frame rails.

Remove the Model A rear cross member by the rivets and install a '27 Model T rear cross member. They look almost identical, but the T is 1" lower. Use a T rear spring and reverse the eye and de-arch the main for somewhere around 3"-4" of drop. You may have to weld a few points of the T cross member to the rear frame rails for strength.

Since you are first timer, no welding to worry about and it the car will look like an old gow job from back in the day.

T stuff is relatively cheap, its the shipping that's expensive. Hershey is using a great place to get both of these parts.

 

Thank you. But I already cut the frame rails and welded them up. Eventually I wanted to reverse the eyes on the main rear leaf but after I notched the body to fit over the step and set the body down, I loved the profile and stance. Because of that, I'm holding off on the reverse eyes for now until I get other things finished.

Plan is to hopefully race it in the sand also, so I don't want it to be too low. Function over form....even though I think it looks damn good for 90 year old girl

 

Semi-productive weekend over the past few days. Bike week was in full swing down in PCB, FL so it was tough not to go out and ride with all the hooligans!! They call it thunder beach...for good reason. This place rumbles for 5 straight days! It's great. Anyway, amidst the rumbling...

I tore apart my bench seat as the wood was all rotted out of it...horribly. and the driver side steel was turning to dust quickly. I saved as much hardware as I could for re-use...took a lot of PB Blaster and heat application, but all bolts finally broke free and were cleaned and used again. I snagged up some oak boards, cut them to fit, had a new steel side piece that needed to be welded on, and rebuilt the seat and then installed. I can't say enough how good it feels to have a legit seat in this car!!!! (Minus springs, padding, and naugahyde). All the people riding by my house ain't got shit on building this old girl up. At first I was jealous because I wasn't out riding with everybody, but then I said the hell with it and got a lot of work done!!! Felt great. Much better than just riding around aimlessly looking at big old leather-bound biker babes.

I also temporarily ran the fuel line to the zenith carb after rebuilding the fuel shut off valve. Gotta test to see if my gas tank is leak-free. The preacher I bought the body from said a gentlemen treated it before he bought it, so fingers crossed on that one. We'll see shortly. Maybe today.

I also separated a ton of old usable hardware that I had in boxes so that I can finish up anchoring this ol girl down once and for all.

Next on the list: zepher dual downdraft intake on the way, twin stromberg 97s, a used exhaust manifold, and must order a high compression head...among many other things.


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I like your progress. Looking at your fuel line set up made me wonder if my old 31 was correct or not. It had a long screen filter like this in the tank behind a Glass sediment bowl, then the shut off valve mounted to the bowl then down to the carb. Do you have a filter in behind the valve? There was also a drop in screen under the Gas Cap to catch anything while the Cap was off.

 

I don't have the one behind the shut off valve or a glass sediment bowl....I take that back, I have TWO glass sediment bowls, neither of which are installed...but I do have the drop in screen in the tank. My setup is temporary for now. Soon, I'll have to re-route all lines because of the zephyr downdraft intake and twin 97s....although 1 of the 97s might be a dummy, depending on how she accepts the fuel. Plan is to use one of the sediment bowls with that setup.

Should I pick up that filter behind the shutoff? I thought a lot of those screens, including the glass bowl were from the old days when lead fuel was used.

I also wanna use a stock exhaust manifold because headers weren't really invented yet back then....is that a wise choice, or am I not reading something? Is there something I could do to the stock one to facilitate more flow/more power?

Ps, thanks for always writing, I really do appreciate all the feedback. It's helping a lot. That goes for almost all the guys on here!! Thanks HAMB!

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I wasn't actually sure where you planed to end up with the Fuel set up. The screen filter I show above is a stock 31 unit. Probably not the best setup and did change as the years moved on. Servicing that filter is a blister to say the least. I personally think the screen in the Glass Bowl system is much better and easier to service.
Myself being the target your headed for with your car I'd just build a header of some sort being the majority of the cars there are also running them. I really don't see much gain either way. With a compression of around 6 to 1 nothing your going to do is going to make big improvements. I also think you'll end up with just one live carb no matter what size you end up with. The little motor in my R.P. has parts from Peat Richards B-Ville record setting Coupe. It has had more than one fuel intake system on it and it actually performed at speed best with one 81 on it. I now have a stock intake/exhaust back on it and you literally can't feel the changes. Some times Looks over ride performance and that's okay.