Projects Building for The Race of Gentlemen...someday

I've done more than one Channel job. I hope you understand that it's real easy to destroy door fit and a lot of other important things. It's not just a little snip clip and weld in a spacer, that is if Fit and Finish means anything at all to ya. It really pays off to do some homework and give some forethought.

 

YES!!! Thank you!!

 

Will do. Now what are the rookie mistakes?

That's why I'm on here. I've read and re-read a ton of information from you guys. Some like to just talk shit from behind a computer screen like a millennial bully but others have a real interest in helping a complete stranger, and I think it's amazing.

Pardon my mistakes if you've seen any. I didn't go to any formal schools that relate to this. At all. But did the guys in the 30s or 40s? I think most of them learned by trial and error, which is pretty incredible. I'm lucky enough to have this site and the few people that offer their two cents because they're genuinely interested. Others put their noses up and get a hair across their ass because they think I did something wrong....or made a "rookie mistake."

If you have some constructive criticism, go ahead and give it in a respectful manner. From what I've read, that's what this is all about. If not, mind your own damn business, move on your way, and don't follow this build.

 

Finish I'm not worried about so much....but fit, I am. Door fit right now isn't all butterflies and rainbows to be honest. The driver door binds up on the rain gutter if you don't shove it up with one hand while closing it. There's a lot of missing hardware inside but I plan on tackling that first. Anybody have a good channel thread worth following? Or know an old hot rodder in Panama City Beach, FL?!? Haha.

 

Good to know you've figured this out. I'll be the first to say I don't know it all. I can say this. I've enjoyed the Hot Rod hobby all my life. I'm now plus 70 and paid all my Bills as well as raised a Family by working on specialty Vehicles. Some guys on here are just to Smart for me to help. I will never tell anyone how they should do things. I will coach a how to as long as I have already done it and things worked out well. I'll also tell you what I did that didn't and why. No point of taking what little I know with me to the Grave. I also only use 2 fingers to type with so I'm selective what project and people I comment to.
In 1970 I built a new Chassis for my Shop truck and then I sectioned and channeled it. Thought not my first of either it was still a learning curve. Here is a 1 year old photo of it coming back to me after 20 year M.I.A. and a lot of neglect. The brown is Rust from having the paint peeled off and left to Mother Nature, W.T.F?

One of my more current projects is this 30 Roadster still in progress. It will be full fendered and is Channeled 6" if I remember correct. It got moved aside a couple years back so I could get my Truck ready for Paint.
My truck has had a little work done also and is getting closer to the paint gun but to date not quit made it there. Age has a funny way of Screwing with progress. Of course that depends on your sense of humor.
To say the least I've enjoyed this game more than most ever get a chance to.
Talking about your project. I've learned the hard way you can't fix bad body alignment by working around it thinking you'll fix it latter. If your doors don't work right now then now is the time to get them right. Not after you cut the main structure and move things around. Never cut up a body until it's mounted on it's final resting place and all your gaps are up to what you expect in the end. It's much easier to keep things right than to try to get it right after surgery.

 

Mr. Pist-n-broke,

I've thoroughly enjoyed all of your responses, two-fingered or not, and you have a LOT more experience than me. I appreciate every word and picture you've sent to me and it's the wisdom you offer that I'm after. I'll be 38 next month, just getting into this game, and having a great time with it thus far. I certainly do not know it all. I try hard to be a jack of all trades and I never expect to master any of them. But if I get close in the process, I'll be happy. Shoot, I'm already happy. I've been tickled pink every morning when I walk into the garage to go to work and see an 88 year old project car sitting there. I never thought I'd be able to do something like this but now I'm committed and having fun with it. My wife loves it as well and can't wait to go for a ride someday.

I enjoy hearing about others' life experience and certainly adding to my own. I've done some pretty amazing things, I've lived a very full life, I've had a lot of fun along the way. I have no doubt that this little jalopy will be another big part of my life story.

I doubt they'll write books about me someday. I don't imagine I'll be a president or a millionaire (unless I hit the powerball big!), but I will always do the best I can in everything I do and that includes making my wife and my dog happy and making our little 31 Coupe drive down the road as a traditional prewar, period-correct hot rod. It's really pretty close to perfect as it sits now (or at least my definition of perfect for such an old car). I know I have a lot to do before I start tearing into it, hence my questions, the show of progress, and how often I refer back to these boards for info.

I'm grateful to the folks who have done it all before me. I love that there is a resurgence of these little cars and an interest in putting them back on the road or in a friendly race. I've never known anybody personally who has one or who has even done any work like this so I really enjoy that this community exists online. People from all over get to see my little car and share their experiences, be them good or bad, and we all learn from it. It's awesome.

I'm currently part of a community of deep sea divers who do the same exact thing....share the goods and bads and learn from one another while working HARD alongside each other. The work ethic, the knowledge, and the ingenuity that I see day in and day out is inspiring. Makes me work harder and makes me want to learn more. There's always going to be that grumpy old master diver who has very strong opinions and voices them when nobody wants to hear it I guess. But I guess that's part of the game. Can't really do anything about it but move forward with the job.

I'm appreciative to all who offer the tricks of the trade and who are willing to share. If not, well I'm still grateful for the ones who are. There seems to be a lot on the HAMB and I'm anxious to join you all. If I have 1/8th of the knowledge that some of the people on here do, I consider that a win.

This site will get me through my build and before long I hope to be sending pictures and videos on to the next guy or girl who takes on a similar project.

Once again, thank you sir and I look forward to reading any and all responses. The same goes to all others willing to offer any help at all.



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Well, it's been a little bit since I've gotten on here to update. In the past month, I flew to Tahiti, Moorea, and Bora Bora to tag along on my honeymoon. It was pretty damn amazing, to say the least. The only thing that was missing was our dog and our little jalopy. I looked all over, but there aren't any project cars in the islands. If anybody is thinking about such a trip, I'd say skip Tahiti and Moorea and go straight to Bora Bora! The place is unreal....looks almost fake.
We couldn't believe it. This is going to be our christmas card, so looks like everybody on the HAMB gets it early. Merry Christmas all.

So when I got back, I had a garage FULL to the brim. I had to offload some stuff so that I could get back to the project and/or at least have room to move some things around so that I could finish the half-started things that I started before I left.

To the right of this shot is the project car. I was lucky enough to offload this one and all the extras quickly and the guy gave me a great price. Many thanks to him for helping me clean and recouping some of the money that escaped my wallet!
Sadly, I also ended up selling my beloved 1970 Chevy CST/10 on the same day! I've had her for so long that it's weird to think that she's gone, but hopefully the guy who bought it has an extra special spot in his garage for her to spend the night in. My (now) wife didn't know that I had a 'newer' vehicle for a very long time when I first met her in Hawaii (had a Titan at the time). I kept picking her up in that old Chevy because it had only one bench seat and I always made her sit in the middle. Hahaha. It wasn't until we got our dog Walter that the middle spot was now taken.

She was REALLY starting to show her age and I couldn't keep her inside, so a new home was in order. Plus it helped me out with the race car!

So, now with a half empty garage, some coin in my pocket, it was time to start back up on the Banger Racer, right? No. I immediately went back to work work, found time to be sacred and scarce, little sleep, little pay, LOTTA WORK. It's been so HOT down here too that getting in the garage is just ASKING for heat stroke. I was able to do a few things yesterday, but definitely didn't get as far as I wanted. I was able to cut off the tabs on either side of the rear cross member so that when I channel the body, it will fit over them. And I finally finished welding on the fish plates to strengthen up my step.

Some cleaning up to do, some primer and paint, and I can get to the body. It only caught on fire twice, so I call that a win and please, keep your shock and awe of my welding skills to yourself. No need to embarass the pros out there when they see such quality work coming from a deep sea diver!

So this is the part where I insert the question in the hopes that somebody has wisdom far beyond my years to extend the helping hand that this site has done so many times thus far. The body is propped up on the frame by wood blocks (not the mounting blocks) so that I could get to the step and make my welds/cuts. I have an idea where the front mounting bolts go.....but there's a 2-hole tab sticking off the frame just aft of that front mounting bolt hole that looks like it needs to line up with a 2-hole section of the body....but only the back hole lines up to the forward hole of the bracket....or so it seems it would. I don't have it completely lined up in the following picture, but you get the idea.

Is there an existing document that shows which mounting blocks line up to which holes on the frame? When I line the body up with the forward most mounting hole (the firewall to body rail part...I don't really know what to call it), there isn't too much room between the motor and the firewall and that seems correct to me. If I slid it back, there'd be no putting the pedal to the metal. I read that there's only supposed to be a rubber spacer on that forward most hole and it lines up great with a hole in the frame that's basically the same size.

All of this is why I didn't make my cuts yesterday....well that and it was about 175 degrees in the garage. This morning is a little cooler, but I've got to get groceries for the week and then the Patriots are going to put on a clinic against the Dolphins at Noon (my time), so I gotta watch that. You'd think that since I live in Florida, they'd televise the Miami game....but no, Jacksonville is playing at the same time. We had to swindle some weird stuff on the line to make it work on the tv. Oh well.

Ok, well, again, if anybody has any insight on alignment with those holes, I'd be forever grateful and it'll help me figure out where I need to cut this body to set her down once and for all!!!!

Thanks to all in advance. I look forward to witnessing the greatness that many of you already have. Someday, maybe I'll have it.

 

Been to long since I actually bolted a stock A Body to a stock frame but even way back then I would have set the Body on the Frame then stood back and put the center of the rear fender opening dead center of the rear crossmember if I was using a stock location Model A rear spring. Then just go with the holes that line up. If you happen to have the stock inner fender panel still in place it has what I call a Chicken foot pattern stamped in it. The vertical line is center of the fender and should be center to the spring crossmember.

 

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you sir! I obviously didn't think of that but it totally makes cosmetic sense. Man, this place always seems to amaze me. Thanks again.

 

Please do some 'searches' for chopping tops (not that you're chopping the top) and channeling Model A's.
Reason is that you'll see how the way to brace the body before cutting any sub frame or door structures (as @Pist-n-Broke mentioned)
Diagonal bracing can be done with nice square or rectangular tubing, 1/2" black pipe, or (when I first opened my shop, I saved money by using cheap E.M.T. (electrical metal tubing)
My neighboring shop had a lot of it (1" conduit) and gave me a bundle of used pieces 8 feet long. Grind before welding...but worked perfect.
By reading your posts, I get that you are practical, careful, and can weld!
We here that have extensive years in hot rods are...'scrounges'. Yep. The real hot rods were built from available cast-off junk then.
We just keep at it.
Good Hunting! (and never ascend any faster than your slowest bubble!)

 

Are your subrails in good shape? If so I wouldn't cut anything just yet. I actually built off them when channeling my Roadster. It worked grate being I had no real alignment issues at all. I actually built up with the step (drop) on top of what was there. Then trimmed the excess off underneath. Worked pretty good and what I built and added made things pretty Ridged. You can see how I plug welded the new to the old and then built new cross pieces with recessed body mount bolts. If you'd like I can get you some photos of the drops of the new piece so you can see the profile and maybe use some of what I did on your project.

 

Here's a few more. If you look close at the last photo you will notice a vertical flange folded on the floor pieces in the Cowell aria. That is a stop and a place to fasten the Kick Panels to. I also did that from the B post all the way to the rear, again for upholstery. You will also notice this floor is flat from firewall to trunk lid. My
I actually started with a Frame kick in the rear but didn't like the issues it brought with it. In this photo is the actual metal I folded for the kicked frame and you can see the profile of the side pieces somewhat. It's all old photos and if you want I can get a couple that show more exact and why I did things the way I did. Also the step in at the doors is I believe only about 2" and leaves room for door upholstery and carpet along with a Kustom sill plate to anchor the carpet. I've seen Channeled cars before with the floor all the way to the door panel and abbreviated door panels and didn't like what I saw. Fixed that.

 

years ago on thanksgiving the Ormond Beach fl. car club had races on the beach. a friend had a mild sooped up 34 rdst. the king of the hill was a model A pu., he ran against the 34 and got out ahead enough to turn wheel and kick dirt all over the roadster. BONES WILL RUN.... won my class in a hill climb in my 29 phaet. latest A build, i wanted a B cam like in the phae., a friend said to call Harvey Crane to grind one, i called Harvey in Daytona Beach at his cam grinding school, he said he didn"t grind cams anymore and it was imposible to regrind an A cam to B specs. he said that he almost got in a fight with someone in i think michigan who advertised he would grind an A to B specs. he said that there was a cam grinder in Arden NC. that would regrind my cam to his touring cam, CRANE 302 grind he is a NASCAR grinder, was doing 5 other A cams when he did mine. Harvey was amazing what he knew about A"s he had 3 pages of different model A cams w/specs, i have an ENGLE #4 5 bering cam that he didn"t have specs on and wanted me to bring it by him so he could do the specs on it, he died befor i got it to him, he started out w/flat heads and A"s in miami fl, a great guy..

 

Looks like you got your plans pretty well on the way.
Having been to Trog at Pismo beach when they did it there I can say the real winners are the guys with the biggest grins at the end of the day no matter if they beat any other cars or not and I'd think that the guys at the line are pretty good at figuring out what cars are fairly equal to make more interesting races after a round or two.

 

Yes, that's another reason I haven't had at it and thank you for the reminder. I've got a decent amount of square tubing from building mosaic tables for my wife. Might be able to borrow (steal) some pieces from work also. I'm trying my best to be practical and careful....the welding is debatable though. I need a mig setup ASAP. Obviously, this is my first....and man I'm lucky to have all you guys to point me in the right direction.

And about ascending faster than the slowest bubble...another diver out there?? Depends on whether or not we're undressing for SurDO2 times, no? The next few weeks, I'll be hitting the books hard to get Air Diving Supervisor and out to sea surface supplied stage diving and SurDO2s plus, I'm duty bends Chamber Sup for a week.....things are getting busy at work again.....so the buggy might have to wait.

 

My sub rails are in really good shape. The body itself amazes me every time I walk out into the garage. Somebody before me welded in a few patch panels and shot some primer at it, so for 90 years old, she looks damn good. I'll snap a few pictures after work. I stepped the frame long before I found the body....I didn't think I'd be able to afford one in such good condition but selling off what I wasn't using helped out big time.

The work you did looks GREAT!! I will in no way need to do that much. I just need to get around the step and the rear cross member. It's a pretty complete car and very solid. The more I can keep it together, the better. Not just because I'm new to this but because my plans are to keep it as original as possible to follow the rules for the race.

 

Hahahaha. Yeah, I honestly would be surprised if I beat anybody. After all this work, I don't see myself going out and beating the hell out of it to beat somebody I don't know.....well, maybe I would. Just getting there will be the best part, and knowing that a diver, not a mechanic, made the car go vroom....I got a lot of work to do before I start dreaming of smiling down the sand!!!!!

 

Check Okie Joe in Oklahoma for the proper dropped axle.he has been in business since 1957 and is very friendly and knowledgeable as well.last phone # is 580-268-3704. Good luck—-flatheads Forever.

 

Sorry about all that junk above. When I read this, Quote[ Still need to do some channeling, ] end of quote; in post #22 I just assumed you were doing a full Channel job. I need to pay closer attention. So what your actually doing is just a small step in the rear floor pan to clear the Z'd rear crossmember. Considerably less work for sure. It does involve the rear body mount hole but just the one on each side. That modification isn't or shouldn't have much effect on alignment other than maybe the deck lid. Again if what's there is solid I'd work over it keeping it in tact and after having added what's necessary remove the stock stuff as needed. It's more involved for those that start with a Rust Bucket or a subframe that's all busted up. When you have a solid foundation work around it once all your gaps are corrected as much as you can. I always do this kind of work with the Body bolted to the Chassis it's going to live on and loaded weight on that Chassis. In other words it's real life environment, cuts down on those comments like "How the ---- did that happen?

 

I am watching .

 

No way man, no need to apologize! That wasn't junk!! I need guys like you to keep me pointed in the right direction!!

But yes, just a small step in the rear floor pan to clear the Z.....I was talking about it with a Diver Master Chief today (who has no experience in this field) and we were both coming to the conclusion that we could set it up on a solid, level, supported stand, get it all aligned properly, screw it down to the aforementioned stand (made of wood) using the existing body mount holes, leave the gap where I need to cut, and go from there after taking the appropriate measurements. In theory, it shouldn't move or affect (effect?) it in any way. I can't bolt it down to the frame it's going to live on because of the step in the rear right now. If I had the body before the roller, or bought both at the same time, then maybe that would have been the better way to go. But the body is definitely not a rust bucket and the subframe doesn't have an ounce of rust or a dent, twist...nothing. It's in surprisingly good shape. When I bought it, it had two bolts holding it onto a different '31 chassis (I wish I knew that because I loaded it on a trailer along with a million other parts and headed off on a 15 hour drive back home....should've checked before I hit the gas, but we all made it....at least I don't think I lost anything).

My concern at this point is that the interior wood isn't installed. It has the ceiling wood, but nothing else. I have all (most?) of the wood that came in it, but it's in a box. I'm wondering if that added structural integrity might be useful prior to starting the job. Additionally, when the guy who had it before the guy I bought it from did some of the patch panels and primer and wood removal, he didn't necessarily finish. I noticed yesterday that the wheel wells aren't tacked to the subframe. There's a few sheet metal screws here and there, but no welds. And the very rear bottom piece of the body under the decklid and under the panel below the decklid is just setting there. There's some welds keeping the wheel wells in place and a sheet metal screw keeping that piece in, but that's about it.

Long story short, the more I investigate, the more cans of worms have been opened. I just gotta get that all shored up before I continue on.

Or do I?

Part of me wonders if it would give me that wiggle factor later when I CAN bolt it to the frame to make the necessary adjustments to ensure my gaps are looking satisfactory and all is working as intended. Know what I mean?

I know you guys like seeing pictures (I know I do) and that would definitely show it better than I can describe it, but I gotta get dinner started for our humble abode. I might be able to throw a few up later tonight. To be continued....

 

Thank you for that info! BUT....at first I really wanted a proper dropped axle or a MorDrop from that era.....and maybe somebody else can chime in here, but if I lower it too much, I'm afraid of plowing sand during the race. I was thinking about just running the stock axle up front. Anybody have experience from TROG where a dropped front caused a hinderance? Thoughts??

I'm after a Highboy Coupe but I don't know if I'm going to dig the stance until I get the body snugged down into it's final resting place. Function over form I guess? I'm building it to race in the sand and while I REALLY like the looks of the lowered hot rods of those days, I just don't want to turn it into a sand sled. I saw the video at Pismo where everybody was getting stuck with their super lowered, high dollar rigs and started thinking twice about that MorDrop.

I've also got a crack-free 46-48 flathead sitting in the corner and initially was going to use that, but when I got a roller with a rebuilt banger in it, I started to like the idea of a 4-cylinder class. THEN, and I forget who it was at the moment, but somebody on here told me that a hopped up banger could run circles around a stock flatty! hahaha. EITHER WAY.....I'VE GOT LOTS OF WORK TO DO!!! Someday, I'll tear it all apart again and put that flathead in it (hopefully when I have more room) but I'm sans the money to get it rebuilt at the moment. I'll go with what works for now and see what happens.

First goal is to get to Wildwood with a running, period-correct car, that goes from the start to the finish line....in 2020....with a full time job, no money, a wife and a dog.....and maintaining the little bit of sanity that I do have.

I mean, the sky is the limit right?

 

Ok, to expand on what's above...first photo, great subframe. Second and third, unattached rear body piece....and some crappy old welds. I'm not good....but I think I could do better than that.

Last photo, just because she looks so damn good in the garage. Can't wait to see it on the road and on the beach!

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Looks like you removed the very end of the Crossmember where the body to frame bolt would have gone. Given that and how solid things look in the photos I'd take my 4" cutoff disc and nip just enough of the inner flange and top rail to get the body down in place. Once there I'd support the back of the Body and double check the Deck Lid fit then build what it takes to remount the last body to frame mount. I see what you mean about the corner patch work. Prime example of,; Just because you own a Welder don't make you one! That's a re do for sure.

 

Yeah, I followed the Tardel book as close as possible. I think next time I might do things a tad different but so far so good. I'm not complaining yet. I also picked up a 39 transmission, so I'm looking forward to rebuilding that. Still gotta snag the Van Pelt book. That will come later though. When I get the body snugged down, I'll wire it up and see if she'll fire up. Been dying to do that. If I can run it around my neighborhood to test the motor, that's a win, then I'm looking into a higher compression head and a downdraft intake with my stromberg carb. It needs rebuilding but is in REALLY good shape as is. Shortly after, I'll pick up a new/old exhaust manifold. It's got an old heater manifold now but this Florida heat warrants removing that and selling it off ASAP. Then some re-gearing of the rear end and all signs point to being race ready. It almost seems like there's light at the end of the tunnel. So close, yet so far away.

 

Well folks, it's been a hot minute. The 31 coupe has been sitting dormant while I was getting drilled for surface supplied air diving supervisor over the last couple weeks.

I made some measurements though, made some cuts, broke out the plasma, made some supports, and notched the body and welded in the supports. See photos below. It was such a weird and uncomfortable angle that the welds came out funky, but nothing a flap disc can't take care of.

Body fits over the rear cross member nicely. I have some grinding to do still but all looks well thus far.

I ordered some parts to get the deck lid secured and closable....but having a hard time finding how to installation of said parts should go. Anybody have pictures of the latch, striker, and bumpers of a non-rumble lid???

Next up is installing body blocks and finally securing it to the frame so I can start the seat rebuild as well as the motor improvements. Until next time...

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I. LOVE. THE. STANCE. OF. THIS. THING! Doesn't look it to the naked eye but it still has a slight downward rake to the front. By my calculations, it'll be perfect to race in the sand!

I only wish it was done for THIS weekend!!! Damn.

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I just returned (as a spectator) from Wildwood NJ TROG and to say it was an experience is an understatement! Cold and windy but the action was good, I estimate 50/50 Bikes to cars running. There were great looking cars and some ...not so muchbut they were participating and having a great time. There were quite a few bangers, in line 6's, Flatheads with single and some with 2-3 carbs and 1 or 2 with early superchargers but most if not all had straight exhausts. The sights ans smells were uniquie and made you feel like you were part of the action. I saw a few special purpose built "rails" and a belly tank and a rear engined (flathead powered) 27 T roadster, a chopped T with a Y block Ford with 3-2s and I think a 4 speed trans. I really believe the guys with the bangers in the Model A's had the most fun and moved on down the san really well. The Flathead powered cars seemed to have more mid to top end acceleration vs. the 4 bangersthat were pretty quick off the line. It was "fun" for all and there were a lot of spectators of all ages (I am almost '72) plus there were all kinds of events , bonfires on the beachja nd events in town. The Wildwood police were very tolerant in my opinion and the locals loved the event and street music in a 2 block area on Sat.
If I had a place to build a TROG vehicle & I was accepted I would concentrate on participation more than "winning". I will attend next year if it held again in 2020. I will down load some photos on the next post from my cell phone.

 

Here are some photos from my cell phone from TROG 2019 sorry for less that perfect shots

 

Some more shots from TROG '19