Junior Johnson didn't do the 409's rep ANY GOOD the way he scattered'em all over NASCAR! Now his style was 'pin-it-and-hope-it-holds-together' for 500 miles. Most of the time it didn't.... It sorta got the reputation as "first to blow" loser. Probably with a more educated right foot.... Jr. woulda won more races.( Back then........it wasn't uncommon for first place to be several LAPS ahead of the field.) Educated and Junior Johnson should NOT be used in the same sentence. 6sally6
Myself I think the Pontiac engines where far superior to the chevy W engines. That wedge shaped combustion chamber in the block was a stupid design. The Pontiac V 8 had a air gap manifold in 55. Most 409,s that where bought from a dealer. would never beat a 421 Pontiac.
Those who bad mouth the 409 have either never owned one and definitely have never driven one. The early to mid sixties 409 four speed Chevies were the cars to own, race and drive. Been there and done that. Most bad mouthers have only heard about 409's and were never there "Back In The Day".
In 62 my uncle Charles Watts bought a new 421 super duty dual 4 &4 speed catalina. He raced it at the US 30 dragstrip at Gary Indiana. And not one single time was he ever beat by a 409 chevy. Brand new cars I think that was certainly back in the day. Myself I owned 409s in trucks and they weren't a good truck engine. the 366 and 427s where good truck engines. A friend in the early 70,s had a 64 impala 409 - 4 speed single 4 bbl carb. those Camaros ate his lunch. Another guy had a 427 in a nova and that was for a long time the fastest 1/4 mile car around.
1964 Milwaukee Wisconsin I got to know a young neighborhood couple, low/mid 20's, they had a red 62 Impala SS, 409, 2 4's, 4 speed, 4:56 posi rear, street slicks, any other mods, he never said, I didn't ask. They were king of the street race deal for a few years and told me they made enough cash 62-64 to pay for the car as the adults (1964 I was 16) were racing for $50/$100 back then, I was there with my 57 Chevy, 348, Tri-carbed, 4:11,street slicks picking and choosing, racing for $10/$20, staying in my class/bracket so to speak. I never saw that red 409 loose, Ever, but with the Mopar 440/426 Hemi, 396/427 Chevelles, Camaros, Ford's 427, Pontiac 421/389 GTO started showing up, the writing was on the wall. The best part of story is SHE (a cutie pie, 5' tall and 100#) drove the car for the money races as he could not row the gears. I moved, lost touch touch with them, I did not see them cruising, street racing anymore and was told they sold car, bought a house and had a kid. The street racing was BIG in the Milwaukee area, but died out around 1970 the year I "retired" from street racing on a Judge's suggestion/recommendation. (I was going to jail if caught one more time street racing) By 67-70 the Police/ Sheriff's dept were making real efforts to stop the street racing, in the beginning I think they sorta looked the other way, but it got too big/wild/fatalities, etc, it had to be controlled and Insurance companies clamped down hard on muscle cars about this time. I never read any other Milwaukee stories here, I can't be the only guy on here from Milwaukee in that time frame, If one posts up, we probably have met or knew some of the same people.
Sorry, skidsteer Chevrolet did not make any 67 factory powered 409 cars. The last one was made in 1965. Another urban legend debunked.
I tell you what, not much looks cooler between the fender of a 55 Chevy than a built 409. Now horsepower per dollar? Yeah, look somewhere else.
I think it depends on how you will use it. 409s are worth the work in 58'-65' Chevys if you can find an uncracked one. They seem just too nose heavy for coupes, etc. if you want any street handling or rear tire life.
There was one '62 Ford 406", driven by our local Dick Brannan, who competed very well against 409s. I've always been a Ford man, but enjoyed riding and driving 409s.
I suppose that if one is willing to ignore the probable 300+ lb. weight differential between those two models, then your argument would have some substance.
What car/engine won the first Daytona 500? Junior Johnson in a 1959 348 powered chevy. No boat anchor I think.
It’s real easy from 50-60 years later to say what was a boat anchor what wasn’t. I’m only 45 years old, and have unfortunately never driven or ridden in a W engine car. The only ones that I have ever seen in person have been in Chevrolet C-80 trucks. But I would trade my only remaining kidney for a chance to drive one with a four speed. I realize that I will probably never own one, but that doesn’t stop my dream car from being a 1963 Biscayne two door with a 409/425 and a four speed. Wide steelies on the rear, dog dishes, painted white or tan. Bench seat with a Hurst Shifter. Shoot, anymore, 454’s are almost as hard to come by around here. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
My ot 71 3/4 has a 454 turbo 400 auto. and 456 no spin. My wife named it scooter because it has tremendous acceleration. easily smokes both rear tires its a gas guzzler. never timed it in the 1/4 but I think it with a set of slicks could do ok?
Yep, my experience was, that you had to respect the red line, but the engine developed enough torque that a few rpm on the top didn't cost you much performance. I saw a few W blocks toss rods, and it was always from missing a shift or over revving. The worst example of a rod going through the block, was at Deer Park in Spokane, in 61. It was a sponsored 59 El Camino, and right after the launch, it sounded like an artillery burst right beside us. There was crap all over the strip, and they weren't large pieces. Bob
However if you calculated pounds of weight per cubic inch they are pretty close. all else being equal if you can turn a 1000 more RPM than someone else you will beat them.
Smokey Yunick: “the engine doesn’t know what name is on the outside.” I like 348/409s, and in their time they were terrors on the street. But too many engineering compromises in the combustion chamber design...hence relegated to the scrap heap in 1965, as was the MEL around the same time. Great engine to power traditional hot rods, and early muscle cars. Pleasing to the eye. They wrote songs about them. But if you’re concerned about power per cubic inch, get an LS. And you’re likely not on this forum anyway if that’s your top concern. More pictures of W motors please!
As a kid I had a couple of 348 engines, one w/tri-carbs I put in a 57 210 coupe, street raced it, fairly quick, not a high rpm deal, lots of torque and another in a 58 impala ragtop that I made into a mild kustom, not nearly as quick as the 57. By then I was trying to be on my good behavior as I had ticket troubles already, A 348/409 was a popular swap in 57's in the 60's where I lived, but when the 327 came to be available, Way Better, I had a few of those back in the day and they were Great. In my time I just about had them all (Chevy) 265, 283, 327, 348, 350, 355, 377, 383, 406, 427, 454. In the last 30 years, HighBoy Roadster, 355, 32 3 window, 355, 51 Merc, 350, OT ragtop FI 305, Safe to say I'm a Chevy engine guy.
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