I have 0 oil consumption . Let’s face it starting a cold engine is by far putting way more wear and tear than running a HV/HP pump . A Hand pump to flood the bearings before start up is your friend , I don’t see or have not seen many on an automotive engine . Use the stock pump / steel sleeve with correct clearances and it will live many a fun mile for you .
I think I remember a device that you add to your engine that would accumulate oil under pressure while the engine was running, then store it until you started the engine again. Then before you start the engine you open a valve and the pressurized oil would lube up the engine thus, preventing dry start up,wear. Or maybe I dreamed that! Lol Bones
Maybe you did!!^^^^^^^^^^^ They DO make an accumulator that is full of pressurized oil. When you have an engine failure/blow sup'in up/let the smoke OUT....the accumulator supplies oil(under pressure) even when the oil pump quits and oil pressure drops. Wouldn't be toooo hard to fab one that holds maybe a 1/2 quart so when you hit the key it pressurizes the oiling system. Bet it would work great! 6sally6
Boneyard51, 6sally6 : product is ACCUSUMP, a spring loaded piston reservoir that loads when oil pressure builds up & discharges when oil pressure drops : these went out of favor when dry sump oil systems became readily available.
Tubman has extra oil going to the top due to using high volume oil pump. Is what I showed part of the issue? Make sense?
HAD extra oil going to the top end. A stock spec oil pump solved my problems completely. The car idles hot at 25 lbs and runs down the road at 55, just like the engine specifications call for. Just a note, after I fixed the excess oil pressure problem with the new pump, it was using a quart of oil every 500 miles. I pulled the heads and brought them to my machinist. He said the valve guide seals were shot (on an engine with less than 5000 miles). A new set of seals solved the oil consumption problem.
So either your engineering was screwed up, or you don't recall correctly. Pressure is a result of resistance to flow. Pumps produce flow, not pressure. Resistance to the flow supplied by the pump results in pressure, that resistance coming from the operating clearances in the engine. Increased pressure does NOT increase volume. Period. Increased volume CAN (and probably will) result in an increase in pressure, as the oil has nowhere to go.
The increased flow resulting in high pressure IS using more HP that could be used to power the wheels instead of the pump. And it is causing additional heating of the oil, which is causing the oil to oxidize (age) quicker, which leads to increased levels of acids and corrosives in the engine, polymerized long chain compounds that will plate out on interior surfaces. Lacquer build up on the relief valve can cause stiction of the valve, which can result in a loss of pressure, which if it happens at the wrong time, or you don't notice it, can result in a loss of the main/rod bearings. I believe you when you say it's not hurting the engine, I just want to point out that it's not as benign as you make it out to be, and it can lead to problems, keeping in mind that these threads are read by many people, some not even members here, and will come up in a goggle search far off into the future. It's good to clarify these things for those folks who may read the thread and not understand the danger.
Blues 4 U , I can tell you I controlled 30 in liquid product pipe lines , with a set orifice for measurement reasons . To increase volume (GPM) needed in the process a regulator was closed to stop dumping back to the cavern which in turn raised line pressure and liquid volume (GPM) in the process , as in 2000 GPM . This is near the same as the relief valve in the auto oil pump . I’m sorry this has nothing to do with the post , I’m just stupid and you cant fix stupid . Again I’m sorry .
You didn’t change the pump or it’s out put, you changed the line,,, by elimination or closing of the bypass. Closing the bypass increased flow to the orifice not an increase of flow out of the pump. If that orifice provide more GPM then the pressure went up, because it has to. The pressure went up because closing that bypass increased the resistance to flow.
And all this time I thought 40 lb of oil pressure 5 w 30 and correct bearing clearance was a bunch of crap. Stupid engineers.
But then I'm use to seeing 120 lbs cold with 70 weight in a hemi with 3.5 thou bearing clearance on the mains and 3 on the rods. Think about this. Nevermind this engine only goes a quarter mile.
Ok, birdsgarage here and I think the problem has been solved! Thanks to Tom Waters and some other hemi guys, it appears that my '56 331/354 Industrial motor has a 392 rear main cap which is approx 3/16" taller than a stock 354 cap which will lower the oil pump shaft into the intermediate shaft (It was barely in the slot). The bottom of the intermediate shaft did show signs of some damage from hitting the oil pump shaft. I called Hot Heads and they told me that the 392 intermediate shaft is 6 1/4" where the 331/354 is 6". I mounted the pump and installed my primer shaft into the pump, I then marked the primer shaft at the top of the block. I laid my distributor into the stock shaft and laid the primer shaft next to it and found that it was 1/4" short so I ordered a 392 shaft and gear from HH and it just got here so test fit in the next day or two. I am confident that this will solve the problem which was the intermediate shaft coming out of the top of the pump because of the taller rear main cap. BTW, I also drilled and tapped a couple of 1/4 x 20 holes in the top of the gear in order to remove it if needed (I have some 5" long 1/4 x 20 bolts to pull it out). I had to drop the pan and pump and push the intermediate shaft out from the bottom (maybe because it was dinged up a little). Since I found out all this info, I have talked to a couple of friends that have all raced hemi's over the years and this is not an isolated case. One friend (Mike Brown) told me that they put together a motor in a dragster and towed it all the way to Victoria Texas, they pushed that car forever trying to get oil pressure, finally they went to a junk yard and got a 392 shaft and no more issues. As far as the 75# oil pressure, I talked to Melling and they don't have a softer spring for the 340 hi volume pump. When I get this thing together and fired up and the oil pressure continues to be at 75# after warm up, I will entertain the thought of getting a normal volume pump for a 340 (everything is identical except the body is shorter) and having the HH shaft machined down to fit in the shorter body. Thanks for all the comments even the ones that didn't apply to the problem.
So we ARE now all interested in throwing this guess right out the window ? Here’s another thing to ponder,,, If the shaft indeed did become dislocated from the pump with just enough engagement to intermittently drive the pump.... (I think that’s what you’re saying). What the hell kind of racket does that make while it’s in between skipping the tank across the notch? And Does the oil pump go down away from the shaft or does the intermediate shaft come up to realize this intermittent dislocation?
It was the wrong intermediate shaft, too short, not all the way engaged. Has 392 rear main cap, go figure
Never any noise but loud exhaust. I'm thinking the intermediate shaft was being pushed up because I did notice that the distributor was moving somewhat, the intermediate shaft was barely into the oil pump. I don't see how the oil pump shaft could have moved, it was bolted in. Also from the top of the dist gear to the top of the block is 3 3/4" which is what it should be.
Swap to Mobil 1 0w-40, it flows down to low temps extremely well and has 1100ppm of zinc, its suitable for a flat tappet car.
I would be glad to use a stock pump if I could find one. This was in the motor when I got it. I found that it had a 392 rear main cap which is 3/16" taller which wouldn't allow the intermediate shaft to fully engage.
First watch this video from Melling showing how bearing clearance affects flow. This is how I "think" it works. As the video says, the pump furnishes flow only. The pump has two places that it can send oil. One is thru the lubrication passages. The other is thru the "bypass" back to the pan. The "bypass" only works when the lube system reaches a certain predetermined "pressure" due to resistance to flow. Anything which provides resistance contributes to the buildup of pressure. The clearance between the rod and main bearings determines some of the resistance that is present....as per the video. BUT.....its not the only source of resistance. Most engines are designed for oil to first go to the lifters,pushrods,and rocker arms. I believe that those components are actually more restrictive to flow than the rod/main bearings, therefore causing some oil to flow thru them and the larger flow to bypass (no spring, just resistance to flow) and go to the rod/main. The rod/main then mostly has control over the final amount of pressure that is developed. The controversy on the return flow from the valve cover area. Yes, the drains at the ends of the heads are much larger than the cumulative area of flow thru the pushrods. You have to remember that once the oil enters the port at each end of the head, the passageway gets smaller as it descends to the block. Also, any restriction in these ports can cause oil to backup. A higher volume pump could (in my opinion) increase flow sufficiently to cause a buildup that wasn't happening previously.....simply because the old oil pump was performing marginally. In other words, marginally sufficient oil supply that was enough to supply lifters but not enough to be bothered by a restriction in the return passage. Increase the flow and now the restriction becomes apparent. Thats my best guess........ Oh, and use the standard pump unless you are reving at a kijillion rpms. The resistance caused by the rod/main bearings controls the amount of flow. If your pump sends a greater volume than they can flow, it will just go thru the bypass valve .
40-50 years ago in dirt track sbc engines I used a Melling HV pump with the lower pressure spring of the 2 that were supplied with the pump, and 50W racing oil. Had little to no problems with bearings. Now I'm just buzzing around the street with an occasional run at the strip in my "A" roadster with sbc. It is equipped with a Comp Cams solid flat tappet cam and their lifters with the .012" hole in the lifter face where it squirts oil on the contact area of the cam lobe and lifter face. When I asked the tech guy at CC about oil pump he agreed with me that with the additional "bleed off" from 16 ea .012" holes that a HV pump would probably a good idea, Built the engine using clearances on the "loose side" of stock specifications, using Amsoil synthetic "Premium Protection" 10W-40 oil, which has a high dose of ZDDP to protect the cam and lifters. No excessive cold oil pressure or anything of that sort. I do run roller rockers in this engine and I'm getting more oil to the top end than needed and have wondered about restricting that a bit, but not with oil galley restrictors like shown in an earlier post in this thread, as I want all the oil I can get to the lifters. Some sort of restiction in the pushrods would seem ideal, but I don't want to use the old trick of stuffing pipe cleaners inside the pushrods, Seems sorta Mickey Mouse. A friend mentioned using restrictor pushrods in a Ford 351C and I think I'll have to ask him about them and where he got them. Maybe they also have them for a Chevy engine.
Yes, this is correct. As I've posted in several threads here, pumps produce flow, not pressure. Pressure is a result of resistance to flow. And yes, several different things will contribute to resistance to flow, including the viscosity of the oil. The technical definition for viscosity is "resistance to flow". The more viscous the oil, the more resistance there is to flow, and vice/versa.
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