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Technical Remove wood frame from 33 Chevy Pickup, replace with steel?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by error404, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. error404
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 383

    error404
    Member
    from CA

    In my quest to have a relatively rattle/squeek free ride, I've been mulling over what I should do for my 33 Chevy Pickup. I'm not looking for a show quality vehicle, I'm looking for something to drive every day. And the rattles are driving me nuts, haha!

    As it is now, the sheet metal (original) panels are screwed into the inside wood frame (new 15 years ago) with wood screws. And no interior upholstery. Every week or so (I drive it every day) I have to go around and tighten them all up. Every now and then finding one that had wiggled all the way out and goes missing. And even then, there's some squeaking noises even after everything is initially tight.

    I think I'd like just need to remove the wood all together, and make a metal interior frame. Not really a "cage" per say, but just a metal square tube framing for the inside. I'm confident at my metal working skills to get this done, but I'd like to think out loud for a bit, and get some input and feedback. This is my first 1930's vehicle.


    If I make the metal framing basically to follow the rough size and dimensions as the existing wood framing, would it be a better idea to put threaded fittings in the metal framing and use bolt/screw the sheet metal with a bit of medium strength loctite to keep them in place? Or would it be better in the long run to weld the body sheet metal to the interior frame? The exterior sheet metal is mostly original, and in ok shape, any rusted out parts have already been cutout and replaced by a previous owner (looks like it was mostly parts of the roof that were patched) but it's by no means dent free and straight. Nore does it need to be when I'm finished.


    I've made alot of furniture out of 1/16" wall (.0625") square/rectangle tubing, in 1", 1.5" and 2" sizes, I have alot of that size on hand, and I think that would that be an appropriate size tubing for this? Would it be worth it to go to a thicker wall? I do have bending and rolling dies for square tubing in these sizes, but I don't think I'll actually need much bending or rolling for this, as most of it looks like straight pieces of wood on the inside. I've not removed the seat yet to look at the bottom though.


    Thoughts, suggestions knowledge from folks who have experience doing this is appreciated!

     
  2. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,145

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    IMG_2712.JPG
    Lots of wood in them old chevys
     
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  3. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 9,214

    mgtstumpy
    Member

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  4. error404
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 383

    error404
    Member
    from CA

    Mine's a pickup truck, and doesn't have a curved windshield, bottom of the windshield is flat.

    Thanks for the photos!
     

  5. Door jambs and posts will likely be the biggest chore .
     
  6. error404
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 383

    error404
    Member
    from CA

    Any thoughts for fastening the sheet metal to the frame, versus welding it to the frame? Any value in keeping the panels removable? (I'm assuming they all are separate?)
     
  7. Floor of the truck should be wood , Inch and a quarter . Replace with tube welded from rocker to rocker and bolt these to frame
     
  8. error404
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 383

    error404
    Member
    from CA

    Great! I think I would definitely make the floor sheet metal removable, or at least a portion of it to access the transmission and what not.

    What wall thickness are you using for the tubing?

    For the sides and rear of the body sheet metal, are you welding them to the frame, or fastening them?
     
  9. Helped do a 32 Chevy several years ago.
    You got a head start with everything fitting. The one we had was in pieces.
    I have used wood sub rails as a pattern for steel ones. Replaced the bottom supports with steel then the posts.
    The doors are fun.
     
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  10. I built my ‘34 several years ago using a mix of plate and tubing to mimic the original wood bits. There is a link in my signature line though I think a lot of pictures got lost during one of the crashes. I pop-riveted my panels in spots and used machine screws to fasten in the visible areas.

    The truck is still not “done” but has been on the road since 2011.
     
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  11. I used panel bond to join any body panels and then welded to tube 20190227_153248.jpg 20170929_212959.jpg 20170929_213243.jpg
     
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  12. I would leave the wood in. what I did on my car was make plates [10 gage] that ran up the back of the wood. I then took the screws out and drilled straight through the wood and the new steel plates. I used oval head countersunk bolts and nuts to squeeze it all together. I then welded the nuts to the new plates. mine have not come loose yet and the car is squeak free.
     
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  13. 66gmc
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 603

    66gmc
    Member

    On my 36 chevy I spot welded the steel structure to the sheetmetal where it was originally nailed to the wood. It has sheetmetal covers that went over the wood originally so to maintain a factory appearance and avoid having a slicked over modern looking door jamb I drilled and tapped the steel structure for 6-32 machine screws and screwed the covers in place...if you dont care about it looking original its faster to just weld everything and call it a day.
     
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  14. I have also drilled and tapped the 24 6-32 screws that hold each of the door panels on .
    Also drilled and tapped all the screws on the rear panels .
     
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  15. error404
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 383

    error404
    Member
    from CA

    Thanks for those photos! :) The tubing, do you remember what wall thickness you used? In my mind 1/16" would be plenty


    That's what I was thinking, weld the panels where the screws used to go, and then if that seems strong enough, leave it. If not, add a few more spot welds on the inside. I don't care if it looks original. It's not running an original motor or pretty much anything else. That's an interesting detail though, adding screws to the welded door jamb :) I might do that just to give it some detail.

    I'm looking closer at the doors, and it appears that there is no wood on the doors, I thought that the upper part was sheet metal overtop wood, but the screws going in there are sheet metal screws, not wood screws. So it looks like I don't have to worry about the doors. :)

    There is also no wood structure underneath the the top of the roof, I'm not sure if there normally is or not, but on mine it's just sheet metal on the top of the roof. I may add a rib or two, I imagine that would keep down on the noise, otherwise such a large unsupported sheet metal is probably acting like a bass drum? I tap on it and it's pretty loud.

    The bed of the truck (which has 1 foot removed from the rear) doesn't have any wood as far as I can tell.
     
    Okie Pete likes this.
  16. Here are some pics from my build. I will say that if I had wood that was in good shape I would have found a way to keep it? I had nothing but a pile of sheetmetal and a few scraps of wood from which to make patterns.

    Floor structure
    image.jpeg
    I wanted wooden floorboards
    image.jpeg
    Sheetmetal under the seat
    image.jpeg
    After I stripped it back down to paint the structure.
    image.jpeg
     
  17. I have a 34 sedan I'm building that has no wood in it. I didn't do quite as excessive metal frame work as the ones above but all seems to be well. Are you aware you can get any single wood piece needed up to a complete wood kit? Some times that's easier. I welded all my Body panels to the steel frame work just to make it easier for me. I had no usable wood to start with so just did it free handed. So far so good. To date it's only been a 10 year project. Probably should have bought the Wood kit.
    34 Chev door jambs 001.jpg
    34 Chev door jambs 010.jpg
    20190207_122334.jpg 20171116_083704.jpg
     
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  18. flatmotor40
    Joined: Apr 14, 2010
    Posts: 621

    flatmotor40
    Member
    from georgia

    Pist-n-broke how did your doors fit after you did the metal.My 35 Standard 2dr the doors didn't line up in the back they were low.Do you shim the body to get the back of door up to get gap right.Just started putting doors on for a test fit.Thanks
     
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  19. flatmotor40
    Joined: Apr 14, 2010
    Posts: 621

    flatmotor40
    Member
    from georgia

    Pist - in-broke I braced it before I took it apart but it seems to move anyway
     
  20. You will have to shim the body to align the doors .

    Pist n broke looks good , had you ordered the wood , you would probably just be recieving it now and recovered financially .
    My understandind is there is quite a wait list and not cheap either !!!!
     
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  21. I did replace the wood in my 33 with steel because most of the wood was gone when I bought the car.
    Nice work guys! ^^^^
     
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  22. Given I didn't start with any Wood at all in the Body I had no limitations in closing the Doors into the opening. One of the big issues I found while looking over two other early Chevy cars is that the Wood changes the body curve from top to bottom as it ages and in doing so actually makes the body opening shorter Top to Bottom. This was just one of the Big issues I found over all. For my project I started with the doors and found that they also did not have a matching curve to each other on either the Cowel edge or B post edge and those did't match the mating Body edge. From there forward I didn't try to make the doors fit as is. I found a happy medium for the front edge of both doors, then matched the rear edge curve to each other. Next was to get the Cowell square diagonally and lifted so it matched the door edge. You'll notice the bracing in the Top photo. Next I took a 2"X 1/8" flat bar and put a body matching curve in it front to back then mounted it to the Door skin tight under the Belt Line reveal and Clekoed it to the Door skin. Then I put that in place matching the belt line on both the Cowell and Quarter panel. My thoughts there was that once done these are the points we want lined up so just start there and build the inner structure to keep things where they belong. If you look at the second photo down you can see the two holes for the clekoes that locked in my door fit. The complete Body/Metal rebuild was done off a center line front to back and top to bottom to make each side of the body as close to each other as possible, then the doors actually fit into the opening. So far so good. No I don't want to do this again.
     
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  23. This is my second wooden car I am doing !!
    I have a 33 3 window waiting it's turn !!
    Cars are easier to do than trucks .The returns on the door edges and posts are all steel , the trucks are wood and heavy on the fabricating side .
     
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  24. flatmotor40
    Joined: Apr 14, 2010
    Posts: 621

    flatmotor40
    Member
    from georgia

    Like you never again a 30's Chevy because of wood.I know they are great but the wood that has been missing and stuff makes it harder.I worked on it yesterday and found the firewall at the bottom was way out toward the engine so I took a racket strap and pulled it back to get it pretty close.Had to take the bottom floor brace back out have to trim it back.But when you get someones else mess to start with just keep on going.It hits a little on the top at the back of door to the B piller.Got to go get a CT scan today so I won't have time to mess today.Had the same problem with my Model A when you take off frame you have to readjust body to get it back on.Will try to post a pic if I can you this computer not good at it Thanks
     
    Okie Pete likes this.
  25. You need to remember that back when these cars were new Fit and Finish wasn't anything close to what we expect today. Back then if the Doors closed and latched that was good enough. Wind and Water leaks weren't an issue.
     
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  26. flatmotor40
    Joined: Apr 14, 2010
    Posts: 621

    flatmotor40
    Member
    from georgia

  27. Something I learned over many years of reconstruction of Rusty old Junk is that bracing things before you take things apart is only a good idea if you already have the kind of Fit you want after all your work is done. Next is what are you bracing to? If your going to any of what you think is Good Wood your not going to like the end result. Often times when making body support braces I will plan ahead so I can make adjustments as needed so when I'm actually done things are where I want them. End result should be a fit like the doors on my 34 project. Due to how I built the Body sub rail I don't have a single shim between the Body and Frame rails at all. Another thing is, What are you doing your surgery on Top of? If your working on top of a sagging and soft old Factory Frame nothing is going to stay where you put it. I won't work on sawhorses or jack stands. A solid foundation is key to how it all works so start with one even if it's not a Frame. I'm luckier than most in that I have pretty good equipment and tools and I understand that. Look at the first two photos I posted of what my Body Parts are fastened to and the new Body support beam. Now if I was working on top of an Old factory frame I would also need it to be as solid and each rail parallel to each other as my work station. If they are not, well it's going to reflect into your work above it. Here's a photo of my driver side door.
    20171116_083758.jpg On final adjustment the door will move forward about 1/32" and the back edge will get kissed with a file just a bit to make it parallel to the Quarter panel edge. What happened there is that when building the Body and making the door to body gap even the Belt line on the Drive side panel traveled up hill from the door back. I adjusted that by drawing the Quarter forward on the bottom, dropping the drive side rear corner and in doing so it brought the Door top to Roof edge in line as well. To the Sharp Eye, yes that's daylight you see above the door at the roof line. The inside Tin Cladding isn't on. In fact both sides were missing when I started the project. This seems to be common place in these and I've been told they just fall off over the years of slamming the Doors against them damaging the Wood that the screws go into holding them on. Sounds silly but who am I to argue being that in 15 years I've only seen one Coupe that actually had both of them still on. That owner was Anal about closing his doors (he held onto the door so I wouldn't) and the over all fit of them was below standard though it was a pretty nice un restored car.
     
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  28. flatmotor40
    Joined: Apr 14, 2010
    Posts: 621

    flatmotor40
    Member
    from georgia

    Looks like you using hidden hinges.I know these old cars don't fit but that is why we weld gaps and grind like we want them.Yours are great looking.I'm using the body on the frame and got it close.The firewall at the bottom was forward about a inch or so.Got the porta power out and got it close.Do you use any rubber under the body to frame.It does have a gap at the top of the door on the windshield area but that will be welded closer when I get to that part.I don't work on it everyday like I used to.Thanks for pics
     
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  29. Yes, hidden hinges and I use some 1/8" conveyor belting with webbing in it. Like you I don't make a Job out of this project like I should. It started out that way but this one just Burned me Out.
     

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