I use shell rotellat in everything. I run a new cam for thirty minutes at 3000 RPM. never had one go flat. That was the instructions that came with a Chet Herbert cam many decades ago. Never ever let a engine idle until after the cam is broken in.
I'm quite anal about FT cams. I do the same thing, like a ritual, every time. Conservative on the hydraulic lash, VR1 10w-30 oil (flows instantly), a cam additive, pre-oil the crap out of it. Then follow what is on the cam card.
Yup, I always used his cheater cams in my stock cars. Keep the revs up no matter how many cop cars show up at 2 am...
I dunno. the last semi I drove they always used Royal Purple and changed it and the filters every 10,000 miles. When I quit driving the truck the 475 cat engine had over one million five hundred thousand miles on it. and had never even had the valve covers off of it. That was over 5 years ago and its still going. Back in the 50,s and early 60,s car engines rarely lasted a 100,000 miles. The Better oil and PCV extended engine life and then fuel injection added more life. Its not uncommon to see a vehicle with a quarter of a million miles today.
Back when I built engines for customers I never did the first start when they where present. after I got the cam broken in and everything tuned up and ready to go. I would let them be present for what they believed was the initial start. Used to get a lot of those overhead cam 4 cyl fords. and they usually had worn out cams. and I broke them in at 3 grand.
I used new lifters on a cam with about 5000 miles or so with no issues so far.. just under 30K right now New lifters pushrod valve springs seals etc...
Oh! I agree oils today are way better than the some of the oils in the 50s and 60s. All conventional oil starts out as dinosaur juice... then different oil company’s refine it and add their additive package. That’s what makes it Quacker State....DX.....Phillips..etc. Each company thinks it has the best combination of things in their package. But one common thing in the additive package a few years ago was the Extreme Pressure additive. I won’t get too technical, but the oil and the other additives don’t like the EP additive, so most oil companies try to keep it at a minimum. When the flat tappet cam fell by the wayside.....so did the EP additive content in most oils. Some companies still make an oil with the EP additive content in higher numbers,formulated for old engines. Or at least that’s the way I understand it. Folks are going to use the oil they like and what works for them. Not trying to promote any brand, type, or weight of oil. Just saying different oils have different properties to work better in different situations. Bones
The newer full synthetic oils have up to four times the film strength of the older API approved oils, but modern FT engines have more spring pressure than the older engines. The highest metal to metal load in an automotive engine, is between the cam lobe and the tappet. The newer oils are formulated with less zinc, which helps the oils meet pollution requirements. There a couple of companies that sell oil designed for older flat tappet engines that has a zinc additive. One such product is, Amsoil synthetic high zinc formula. I have it, but actually prefer to use the racing synthetic oil. I use the synthetic racing oil, because my vehicles get so few miles in a year. The difference between the racing oil and the regular synthetic oil, is that there are anti galling additives in the racing oil that replace the anti corrosion additives of the standard oils. I also use excellent, highest quality filters. There is no point in putting good oil in an engine if you don't have the best filters. I pulled a pair of 1975 Ford boat engines apart because of salt water contamination. They had been run on synthetic oil since the boat was new, and the engines had over 3500 hours on them. They had always been run at approximately 75 to 80% of their max power, and there was so little wear that you could still see the machining marks on the cylinders. The oil pans were so clean that you could have eaten out of them. Some oils are better than others Here is a link to an older article on the function of zinc, and other additives, in the oil. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/advice/car-maintenance/high-zinc-motor-oil By the way, I have used old lifters on a new cam without issues, but that was not in a high performance engine. I agree that the best way to prevent failure is to insure that the cam gets oil immediately after startup. I have a device that mounts on my drill to circulate the oil in my engines before starting after a major repair or rebuild. Bob
I always heard Quacker State and Pennzoil where black oils. I know they made a real gooey black coating inside the engine. I got a 69 chevy caprice. uncle john Bought it new. Always had the oil and filter changed at 3000 miles. Used Quaker State. and it was starting to burn oil at 100,000 miles. I tore the 2 bbl 327 down. and it had about 1/4 inch coating of soft black goo on the inside. New rings & bearings 30-30 cam powerpack heads C4b intake and carter 650 carb. Havent fired it up yet. I certainly aint gonna use Quaker state oil.
I can remember back in the fifties and sixties, pulling valve covers off the small block Chevies and being able to read “ Chevrolet “ in the sludge left on the head. You could not even see the rocker arms! Most of the time we didn’t know the history of the engine...so I have no brand to blame! I guess they were non-detergent oils. Bones
You are testing my memory here, but there are basically two basic types of crude oil, one is a paraffin based type oil, and the other is an asphalt base oil. The base was simply a matter of the geographical area where the oil was recovered. My understanding was, that the oil from the old Pennsylvania fields was a paraffin type, and so both companies used the base stock name in their early advertising, to indicate they thought a paraffin based oil was just naturally better. I actually worked in one oil field, where we were recovering crude of both base types (from different wells). They had to be handled differently, but I don't know that one was better than the other. When they oil industry discarded the old ML, MM, MS, standard in the fifties and went to the new API standards for designating the type of service requirement, that the oils became so much more sophisticated that the base stock was no longer relevant. The oil companies became experts at meeting the minimum standards for a specified product, and as an example, back in the 70s the "premium" oils were coking up and causing premature lifter and cam failures just like the older formulations. ( There were GM cam warranty failures that cost the company millions). That caused the industry to define new standards. and that required the oil companies to improve their formulations. They engineers forced the improvement, by requiring lower low temperature viscosity oils, such as 5W-30 instead of 10W-30 oils in the new engines. This required that the oil companies had to formulate the oil with better base stock. Bob
Never had the valve covers off?? Never had the overhead run on it? I’ve never been that lucky or brave. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I’m with Jim on this. Everything on our farm except the two new Caravans and the Harley’s get Phillips 66 All Fleet 15w-40 because I get it free at work and the Caravans get 5w-20 Harvest King oil from Rural King. The Harley’s get No name 20w-50. I’ve worked in this industry waaay too long to believe in fancy oils. I also firmly believe what Blues4U says about not using any additives in oil. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
This topic has been discussed before about zinc there's some guys that work in development of oil here on the HAMB , Since about 2000 Zinc has been removed from oil off the shelf , (EPA ) unless it state it has Zinc ,(most race oils) & Diesel oil's . In commercial world diesel EPA has lowered the amount of Zinc in diesel oils ,the commercial industry are seeing premature engine wear & failures , NONE roller motors Need Zinc !! Break in oils are loaded with Zinc . I had a guy i know come to me around 2009 he hade serval, about 12 Honda small engines with cam failure, Installed all New Honda motors & off shelf oil , with in 1 month , same thing , Did some research , Found about the zinc being removed from oils , replace all motors again , add oil with Zinc & @ oil changes , motors lasted 4-5 years in commercial use . Miss matched came lifters , i have done it , but with low came lift low spring pressed with success ( sbc-bbc) 80 - 120 pound on seat . I run different bands & weight in my Motors , Valvoline Vr1 race , Lucas Junior nitro oil , brad pen it depends on set up Use & other factors ,(my oil changes are between 1,000-2,000 miles .I even had set ups change oil every 8 passes ) all with zinc , after oil change that oil is stained then used in lawn equipment , or modern high mileage oil users . A band-Aid fix around 1980 , my uncle had a Pinto with a whipped cam , my father welding the lobes and filled shapes / lobe back by eye , cam lasted another 45,000 miles . Real Facts things have change in how stuff was made for us older people and how we use to do it , Some good alot bad , gas , oil ,tires, trans fluid ,replacement parts , It becoming hard to keep of with , most do not care to figure out why something fails ,people get Frustrated and give up on old cars /hobby . I try to find out why something has failed , Not just throw parts @ .. there a lot of shops/ Businesses Doing this to Customers ,
It had almost 900,000 miles on it when I started driving it. I watched as the odometer turned to all zeros. I was told to take it and get new mains and rods and the overhead run. But I thought if its not broke why fix it. so I never did. those folks had so many trucks they did not even know where they where all at. Drivers got 25% of gross revenues and where expected to be able to run like they where owner operators. get your own loads and take care of everything. I drove it 58 MPH in 12th gear. It vibrated in 13th. Computer fuel engine. never a puff of black smoke. I made many trips thru Waterloo Ill. I ran highway 3 from St Louis to Chester and crossed the big muddy there and got back on I55 at St Marys. Made my scale dodge real easy.
Well Im NOT religious but I am Christian and..... I believe its simantics(?!) Type of oil doesn't matter BUT........its the additives you put with the oil is what saves the cam on break-in. ZINC is what's missing in the newer oils(compared to oil in the 60/70/80/ you get the idea!) Racing oils tend to have the zinc because so many race engines use flat tappet lifters on the racing cams (soild or hydraulics)
Some folks would mix brands just pour in whatever brand was cheapest. one kid who worked at a gas station collected the drippings from every empty oil can. called it mystery oil? Used it in his oil burning car and when he finally got a better car. the old rambler went to the junkyard. and when that valve cover was pulled it was like a cake mold. you couldn't see the valve train.
A friend of mine used to run at night as much as possible to avoid the scales on the Island where I live. There was no way of detouring around them, but they closed at night. He was an owner/driver, and used to joke that he went through a lot of money, but none of it stuck to him. Bob
Small world eh? You are one of the very few real truck drivers that I have met in my career. Most guys can make the truck move, but have no idea how to drive it. One of these days, I would love to come down to your place to see your stuff and to meet you. You, I and Bones think a lot a like and have a lot in common. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
You guys are partly correct, partly not, but I would say more correct than not. Technically there are really 3 different types of hydro-carbons common in crude oils, aromatic, napthenic and paraffinic. The differences come down to the shape and size of the molecule. Aromatic and Napthenic crude oil molecules are a ring shape, paraffinic is branched, long chain. Aromatic oils are really not useful for lubricants, they are more useful for fuels and solvents. Napthenic oils can be used for inexpensive (cheap) hydraulic oils and process oils, etc. Any good lubricant will be made using a paraffin base oil. Now, no crude oil is 100% of any one of those types of hydrocarbon, all crudes are a mixture of all of them, along with a lot of other compounds, like sulfur for instance. But certain crudes contain higher concentrations of one or another, so yes, good old Philadelphia crude oil is high in paraffin, low in aromatics. So historically good engine oils were made from PA crude, thats the good stuff. However, modern refining technology makes the crude source less important, because of hydrocracking technology those armoatic and napthenic rings can be cracked open, and hydrogen can be forced into the open bonds to create very high quality paraffin base oils. The API breaks paraffin base oils into 3 groups, depending on the content of saturates and sulfur and the viscosity index. Group I is old skool motor oils, not used much these days, except maybe in some house brands. Group II used to be the shit, now every major lubes company uses it. When I started in the bizz it was how we offered some seperation between ourselves and the competition. Now everybody uses it. Group III is considered "synthetic", and most synthetic motor oil on the market are made with Group III technology. Synthetic blends use Group II/III blends. BTW, Group IV is Polyalphaolefin (PAO), full synthetic. Group V is everything else, including esters and silicones, as well as aromatics and napthenics. So, lot's of techno-speak there, but the point is, those old Quaker State and Pennzoil motor oils were made from paraffin base oil, but every other good quality motor oil was too. It's just that Quaker State and Pennzoil didn't necessarily use the best refining processes or the best additive chemistries, and yeah, they had a well earned reputation for developing a ton of sludge in those old engines. Both companies products have come a long way since those days, and don't have the same issues as they did. Re asphaltic oils, all crudes will contain some amount of asphaltic oils, just really heavy, high viscosity oil that is at the bottom of the distillation tower. That shouldn't come into play with motor oils, which are taken off from much higher in the distillation process.
Once again Blues4U has taught me(us) something. Thank you Blues for setting the record straight. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Back to the OP in this thread, Squirrel already picked out the biggest mistake was the used lifters on a new cam. And lot's of discussion about the right oil, nobody mentioned the OP's use of STP as a cam lube. No doubt in my mind that did not help his situation at all. STP contains less zinc in it than modern SN engine oils. It's nice a gooey, it's basically "plastic" in a heavy base oil, or rather long chain polymers, typically used as viscosity index improvers. Their main purpose is to help maintain viscometrics in the oil as the oil heats up, not as anti-wear protection. That was a big mistake.
One more, re zinc anti-wear compounds. Zinc will form a sacrificial layer on the mating parts in an engine, but 2 things about it, it takes a little bit of friction/contact between the parts to generate enough heat to activate the zinc and cause it to plate out on the parts. And 2. the protective layer will only be so thick, no matter how much zinc is in the oil. Once the maximum thickness of the layer is formed, you can add all the zinc in the world and the layer will not grow any thicker. However, as the zinc wears off the parts, the remaining fresh zinc will replace it and keep the layer, or "tribo-film", intact. So there seems to be some misunderstanding of how that works and why there is a need for high zinc levels. Just keep in mind, higher levels of zinc does not equal thicker tribo-film, it offers longer protection. Zinc also serves as an anti-oxidant, in fact that was the original purpose it was developed, good anti-wear performance was kind of a lucky accident. But that's another reason why you need it in oil, to prevent the oil from aging. And finally, the reason why you want a good high rpm operation of the engine when breaking it is, is because as I posted above, it takes a bit of friction and heat to activate the zinc. Until the zinc is activated, and plates out on the cam lobe and the lifter face, it is the dynamic flow of oil that will keep the parts separated, and keep the cam from failing. The trick is to generate enough friction to activate the zinc without so much as to cause microwelding or adhesions forming. Once the zinc plates out then it takes over during those times of low oil flow (called boundary conditions). Experts have figured out that it takes about 20 minutes or so for this to happen. That's what the cam lube and moly lubes are for, to offer some protection until the zinc layer can form. Hope that helps clarify things a little.
One Thing I never see mentioned on these threads, is you dont want to wind and wind and wind on the starter before the thing fires. Get the time as close as you can by eye, make sure you get the fuel bowls full (through the vent) and make damn sure the battery is fully charged. If it turns over more than twice, somethings wrong, figure out what it is, and fix it. Pre lubing has been mentioned, but kind of got overlooked. I like to see every pushrod oil, but at least see the gauge read good oil pressure.. Good Luck
I've always questioned the reuse of a cam and it's mated lifters when they are moved to a different engine block. I know a lot of folks have done it successfully, but wouldn't manufacturing tolerances possibly change the relationship of the cam to the lifters? If the face of the block that determines the depth of the cam into the block is slightly different, or the lifter bores are slightly shifted, it would cause the lifters to ride on a different area of the cam than what they were in the original block. A different timing gear could also change the depth of the cam into the block and result in a slight mismatch of mated areas as well.
Getting closer to firing mine...and I’m nervous as shit....been 20 years since I broke in a motor..hydraulic lifters...comp cam stuff..Trick Flow heads with their valve springs....everything is new other than the block...if I wipe it out it’s gonna hurt
If those springs are dual springs, I would remove the inner springs for break in. Much softer touch on the cam. Inner springs can be replaced heads on after break in. ZDDP, of course. And no idling. Above 2500 for the splash lubrication of the cam. Pre lube heavily. And you gotta' hold your mouth just right.
When I dropped the fresh engine back in my '64 Galaxie it didn't fire right off. I kicked myself when the fuel line from the chassis to the pump was found not hooked up. The second the fuel filled the carb it lit off. I love the sound of a fresh engine singing as it comes to life. Get it fired and get the RPMs up. Worry about timing and leaking valve covers later. And yes I agree, STP isn't a cam lube. Good luck with the next firing! -Dave
I'm glad you brought up the splash oiling. That is one of the main reasons for the higher rpm. If you study the oiling system of the typical OHV engine with cam in the block, the oil galley supplies the lifters though the side. The face of the cam does not get any direct oil, so it has to rely mostly on splash oiling. There are some lifters now sold that have been made with a very small EDM'd hole on the lifter face that has the exact purpose of providing more oiling to that lifter/cam interface. I think this is a great idea, although I have not personally used any, or even broke in a new cam for probably 7 years now.
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