Technical SBC one valve won't stay adjusted

I also wanted to double check what they should be set to? Normally you would get the specs from the cam card, but since I'm setting a solid, what is the proper lash? Same for exhaust and intake?

 

I would go 18 thousands hot on both.

 

Got it. 18k
Looking at the solid lifters and wondering if I should do flat or roller.
Can I do roller?
Is there an advantage/disadvantage?
Would I have to change pushrods?
Thanks

 

You could run a longer push rod to keep the geometry right and collapse the lifter that is already broken in and use it like a solid..

 

You might have a scored piston. I've seen the metal from the cam lobe embedded into the piston skirt and damage the cylinder wall. Put some pressure on the Rocker arm with the engine running, if the tick changes it is in the valve train. If not, it is deeper (Piston or Rod bearing).

 

If it's a flat tappet cam, stick with a flat tappet lifter.

 

If it's a flat tappet cam, stick with a flat tappet lifter.

 

I have been working on SBC engines exclusively for more than 50 years. I can think of no line of reasoning that would lead you to putting solid lifters on a hydraulic cam.

 

Hamb reasoning

 

Just to test, I would change to at least a 50 weight racing oil. Then change. I always like to have as many clues as possible before I go to slinging wrenches. Sometimes that smoking gun..... is kinda hidden.

Many moons ago, my friend over hauled the 289 in his _ _ _ _ _ _{ can’t use that word here} and when he got done..... sounded like a rod was loose......knocking. Had several expert mechanics listen to it, all said rod. Tore it back down, checked everything. No problem!
Found out you could tighten down one of the lifters and the knock would go away! Then come back! Still everyone said it was a loose rod! Out of frustration, my friend took the car out on our local highway, put it in low gear, put it on the floor and drove it a couple miles. Pulled over, engine sounded the same! He said” well, I sure it’s not a rod !” We never did figure out what that noise was, he just drove it for a couple years!




Bones

 

I had a used small block. worn out used oil had what sounded like a pecky lifter. I just kept driving it. and one day I learned what the noise was. There was a broken piston skirt. letting the piston cock enuf to hit the cyl head.

 

I'd imagine he's hoping that if it holds the lash and stays quiet with the solid lifter he'll assume that the hydraulics either had the plunger sticking in them or that they were bleeding down excessively. Thinking outside the box a little instead of just throwing money at it.

 

I had a brand new 65 Comet 6cyl that developed a ticking noise..brought to dealer and mechanic adjusted valves but the ticker wouldn't stop ticking, no matter how many times he adjusted.. He called another mechanic over and he adjusted it, no better..Third Mechanic came over and with the engine idling he took a hammer and placed the handle between the valve spring and the valve cover gasket rib and pushed against the spring retainer..The ticking went away; he says bad valve guide, too much clearance..They replaced the head [integral guides] and all was good for the next 150k..

 

Based on everything that I've read and lots of you guys input, I'm gonna change out the lifters and go solid. Picking them up this afternoon. I just wanted to double check that I can go this route with all of them. Once I do:
What spec do I set each? Up above for one cylinder I was told 18k.
Will this wear out the new cam faster?
Will this increase/decrease performance?
Any other variables with timing or suggestions going this route appreciated.
Thanks

 

It’s more than obvious you can do whatever you want. Do you think cam manufactures spec out cams for solid lifters and there’s different ones for hydraulic lifters?
Is there any one cam manufacture that has a cam that says for use with solid or hydraulic lifters?

 

I thought your intention was only to substitute a couple of solid lifters temporarily on the one cylinder that was giving you problems. Things like determining the proper lash adjustment for a full set is going to be largely guesswork. .018" hot is probably a safe place to start, maybe a bit looser on the exhaust valve. You'll know if they're too tight when the engine gets to full temperature and you get a miss or backfire because a valve isn't closing quite fully.

You might get by, for a while or longer, with the solid lifters. But I think your odds are better in the long run if you can stick with the hydraulics. If the engine has an issue with, say, the lifter bores, solid lifters aren't going to fix the actual problem.

It still sounds likely to be as comparatively simple as a rocker stud working its way loose or a failed hydraulic lifter or lifter bore.

 

Since these are newly rebuilt heads with new studs, I kind of left that and think its the bore. Especially knowing that the cam I swapped out was worn down smooth on this same cylinder. I thought the solid lifter would alleviate the issue of the valve not adjusting. I thought since I was doing one, I'd do them all. And now feel totally stupid because doing that would ruin my new cam super fast. And even doing one's gonna wear it out. I don't know how to determine a lifter bore hole problem. Can still double check the stud. Feel like I'm back at square 1.

 

The thing is a can has no way of knowing if its lifting a solid or hyd lifter. its not gonna wear any faster or slower. hyd cams have a different profile to take up the squeeze in a hyd lifter. when you but solids on a hyd cam you just get a bit more duration. You have changed everything except the lifter bore. So Its really suspect that the lifter bore is worn letting the lifter bleed down. Solid lifters don't bleed down.

 

OK. So do I just do one or all? And if all, set them all to 18K?

 

I myself would do just one lifter first as a test. however it would not hurt anything to change them all . however say you do just one and it don't help your problem. you wasted time and one new solid lifter. if you has changed them all you have wasted your time and 15 new lifters. If one new solid lifter makes it better after a trial period all it cost is intake gaskets to change the remaining 15 lifters.

 

If it were mine, and the problem consistently shows up on the same cylinder, and I had a couple of new or nearly new used solid lifters, I'd install them for test purposes on only the problem cylinder. After you get a little heat in the engine and can make your best guess at setting the lash let it run as long as you feel necessary to see if it will hold the lash adjustment or not.

Make sure the lifter bores aren't scored. Install the lifters lightly oiled and rotate them a few times while moving them up and down in the bore to make there aren't any tight spots. Move them firmly from side to side in the bore in all directions and make sure you don't feel any real movement or side clearance. If they move smoothly with no side to side play, put the pushrods and rockers back on and try to make a close initial lash adjustment.

Then put the intake back on and fire it up. At least the other 7 cylinders should still run quietly so you can readily hear what's happening on the problem cylinder. Set the lash on the solid lifters as best you can to quiet them down and then wait and see if the lash holds and things stay quiet or not. At least this way you're better able to concentrate on the one cylinder that's been the troublemaker. Hopefully you might end up only needing to replace a couple of hydraulic lifters.

I wouldn't want to switch all the lifters over to solids as a permanent solution.

 

I would be looking for a hair line crack and it will be very hard to see with the eye that is letting the stud more ever so slightly under load just enough to create your problems.

Remember just looking at the stud and trying to find any movement won't work because there will not be any as it only under load that it is happening.

I had something similar happen with a starter motor that was torqued down tight and it was only under load the the hair line crack let it move.
The only way I found my problem was after changing a few starter motors and having the same problem.
A friend on mine happen to stop by and I told him to just tap the key a few times while was looking at the starter motor and sure enough it was moving up and down and I realized what was going on.
The crazy part you could not move it at all with your hands and it was in there tight!
Jimbo

 

The noisy lifter is also the one shooting excessive oil out of the pushrod - ? I believe that’s what you said and that is highly suggestive of faulty lifter internals.




Because the oil that’s supposed to remain in the lifter an become non compressible is coming out of the lifter.


What’s still a mystery and probably more than a coincidence is why this is occurring on the same location as the lobe that went flat.

 

Running a solid lifter on a cam designed for hydraulic lifters will increase the noise, not reduce it.

Cams designed for solid lifters have a ramp designed into the lift curve to reduce seating velocity for noise control as the valve lifts off the seat. It gently takes up the lash.

Hydraulic lifters are zero lash devices, unless the plunger sticks or there is enough lobe or rocker wear to exceed the lifter plunger travel.

Running solid lifters on a cam designed for hydraulic lifters is a dumb idea.

 

I would do this check before I replaced anything else or tore anything apart. From way back in the day I seem to remember bad valve guides causing this problem. With all that you have changed out and the problem staying the same and in the same place I would say it is a slim chance, but it is a cheap, quick check. You said the heads were rebuilt but there's a reason "new" has a warranty.

 

And burn a valve. How do you propose to set the valve lash, and keep it, by pretending that a hydraulic lifter is a solid? Any lash you set will be eliminated because that is what hydraulic lifters do.

 

You bottom the lifter out keep adjusting until all the travel is gone stop the engine adjust the lash with the lifter on the base circle. If the lifter pumps up so be it the rest of the lifter are running zero lash it will not hold the valve open.

 

This thread is funny as hell...No wonder the HAMB has gone to the shits,if all readers are as dumb as these posters are...

 

My head hurts.....

 

Well he already had a flat lobe on the first cam. I doubt he completely dissembled the engine and cleaned it and installed new bearings oil pump ect. So what its it gonna hurt to swap in a solid lifter for a test? I seem to remember just last month a lot of your oh so smart know it alls. stating squirrels ring job on his Hudson would be a complete failure. because of a scratch in the cyl wall. and it actually did the LeMons Rally and he took first place. I aint saying a solid lifter will be quiet. I saying it will prevent the valve lash from change. If there is still change present after a solid lifter is installed. then we know its not a faulty lifter or worn lifter bore that's the reason.