Technical Ford 312 advice and value???

Hi Everyone
I'm a new member but have been reading and gleaming knowledge on here for years. I have the opportunity to buy what is suppose to be a 1956 Ford 312 out of a Thunderbird. I've read as much info as I can find on the Y blocks and how to tell the difference from a 292 and a 312. Time is of the essence so I haven't had a chance to pull the dust cover to check for the dot on the crank flange.

The engine has the T-bird aluminum valve covers and the exhaust manifolds without the crossover pipe but the carb doesn't appear to be a Holley teapot. I only have one pic he sent of the engine. Can anyone identify the carb on it? The engine, auto tranny, and diff are all suppose to be out of the same 56 T-bird. They are currently installed in a 63-64ish International Metro and it runs.

The seller is an old stock car racer in his 80's who use to run 49ish Fords with Merc flatheads. I can get the whole van for $400-500 CDN(about $300-375US). I was going to use the Metro for storage and pull the drivetrain.

I have a 64 F100 longbox with a Y block that I assume is a 292 that is just the short block(no heads, intake, etc.) and a 65 F100 shortbox with a garbage 302. I have numerous sbf's and a complete 71 429Thunderjet drivetrain but I like the idea of putting an era correct Y block in one of them.

I figure for the low price, I can't really lose even if it's a smaller displacement Y block seeing as it runs. I figure the aluminum valve covers are worth almost what I'd pay for the whole van.

 

This is a no brainer, doesn't matter what CID the engine is, for that price you can't possibly lose.

 

Yep, I’d buy it considering what you mention on just value of valve covers. I don’t think you can go wrong no matter what it is for the price you mention.

 

Buy it! Now!




Bones

 

Thanks for the advice and encouragement guys. I called him and we agreed on $500CDN/$375US. He wants to change the fuel pump so I can drive it home so I have to wait to pick it. It's been stored in his garage for the last 20 years and he said it hasn't seen a lot of miles over the years. I'll post more pics when I get it home.

 

I had a 56 TBird 40 years ago, and IIRC that looks like the correct carb.

 

Thanks BJR. I have very little knowledge on the teapots. At first, it looked like a 2 barrel to me which made me question whether it was a 312. Did yours have the 312 or the 292?
I'm actually not too far from you up in Thunder Bay, Ont. I've been down to St. Paul a bunch of times for concerts and visiting friends. Great city.

 

I agree with the others that it is a good buy. The main weakness of these engines, because crappy oil we had back then, was the the oil lines to the rocker shaft and rockers would get clogged. The work around, was to install an external oiler. That wouldn't stop me from buying the engine, but I would ask the seller if he did have that problem, and if so, what he did about it.
I have owned both the 292 and 312s, and that carb looks right. I attempted to remember what carb my TBird 312 had on it, I think it was a regular looking Holley, but I had a helmet fire and gave up. It was just too long ago.
Bob

 

That carb is from a 54 or earlier truck. Not from T Bird. All Y Block engines are 312 when being sold.

Does the distributor have a governor on it?

Even if its a 292 - its a good buy.

Oldmics

 

Thunder Bay? Are your pickups rust free? The deal on the 312 sounds real good. I'd get it, if I were you.
Hello, from the other end of the lake.

 

400 is a good buy for it regardless if its a 312 or not. Id buy it just for a spare at that price point

 

That's a Holley T pot carb. They most certainly came on 56 car engines. and they came on both the 292 and 312 mills. Heck I don't like Y blocks. I consider them Boat anchors. However I would not hesitate to buy the Metro at that price. The Y block is a flawed design. the center cam bearing is too narrow. and with even a little bit of wear it starts leaking internally. and the oil can leak at the cam bearing much easier than pushing oil to the rockers. Some builders install a wider cam bearing that is made for the front cam journal in the place of the narrow one?

 

Old Wolf, we had several Y blocks on the ranch, back in the fifties and sixties, never had any of the trouble, people talk about. But, we maintained them, kept 195 thermostats in them, change oil semi regularly. And we worked the hell out of them. We had a 2 ton that had a 292 with a twenty ft bed that we hauled watermelons to a three state area. Ran like a sewing machine. Still have a 312 T- Bird special in a 56 Pick up, in the barn.

Two of them we bought new!

Bones

 

Great to meet you Algoma. My wife has family in SSM. She's headed there in a couple of weeks.

The longbox is surprisingly good and the shortbox is much rougher. I actually bought the longbox to swap all the box forward sheetmetal onto the shorty. I was also going to use the straight axle out of the 64 longbox to buld a gasser out of the 65 shorty. But I don't know if I have the heart to part out the longbox. As you know, finding anything salvagable around here is tough so I want to try and save both trucks.

I have a 57 Pontiac Business Coupe I was going to Gassify so I may not straight axle the shorty. I also have a 96-97ish Lincoln Mark 8 with the all aluminum 32v 4.6L so I might swap the drivetrain and subframes into the shorty and build the Y block for the longbox.

 

Here's some pics of a few of the projects I have. You can see by the longbox and the 73 Ventura Sprint, decent projects can still be found if you're willing to search. I even found an original 70 SS454 LS6/M22 car here but had to sell it after getting two herniated disc's.

 

That's the original paint on the Sprint and the hood is for the 57.

 

I also had a numbers matching 57 Pontiac Laurentian hardtop 283 Power Pac car with factory dual exhaust and posi, 57 Safari 4dr wagon original 283, 47 International, but I had to thin the herd.

 

Hold the phone! $375 US and you can DRIVE it home??? Score!!!!


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That’s a deal. When you get time to look close this site might be helpful. Bottom of the page is a listing of block and head casting numbers and more. Under “information center”

http://www.ford-y-block.com/

 

i remember people having problems with oil supply to the rockers. there was a kit that ran pipes to the valve covers...

 

Lol. It started out with me going to look at a stock one owner 88 Mustang 5.0 LX notchback he had for sale at a great price. He won it new in 88 in the lotto and kept it all these years. It was the exact same model that was my first "fast" car so it had piqued my interest. I wound up passing on it but we got to talking and he showed me the Metro.

The guy is in his 80's and still turning wrenches. I told him I took him at his word that it runs and would take it as is. But he insisted he wanted to get it running for me so I could drive it home. I was over at his place today and he was telling great stories about his days stock car racing. The other racers would all chip in the bounty to make him tear his Merc based Flatheads down while they were still hot after the races because he kept kicking butt.

I shot the breeze with him for a couple of hours talking about cars and life. Edsel parts hanging on a wall. Early 60's VW parts piled up in another corner. A beat up work bench showing the scars of hundreds of projects started and finished. I'm hoping he'll let me go help him this weekend to get it running. I'm betting I'll learn at least a few cool things.


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I always loved talking to the old guys. Oh, crap! It caused me to turn into one!
Bob
(76)

 

With that wacky carb and this guy's talent for assembling engines, there's no telling what displacement that Y block is, but no matter what, it needs to be gotten. There's a huge following of old Metro vans by guys who are fixing them up, at some point I bet someone would want it for more than just storage.

The seller sounds like a cool guy too, I'd keep in touch with him, at some point he'll probably have lots of other old hot rod stuff to sell off.

 

I read somewhere that 312's had smaller mains and more potential for cracking the main webs, 292 were stronger. Oil to rockers went from center cam bearing up into block, made 90* turn short run then another 90* turn to rocker stand. Old non-detergent oil would coke up the small passage and reduce oil to rockers. Putting in detergent oil without cleaning everything out would loosen and make it worse. Center cam bearing had inside groove to get oil past the journal and high mileage would wear out the bearing and groove reducing oil pressure. At rebuild time, Bill Coleman of Coleman Bros., carved a groove on the rear of the cam bearing to maintain pressure and flow. All of this doesn't mean much, but you can learn a lot about Y-blks on John Mummert's site. You can also use an FE blk fuel pump, bolts right up and has a replaceable filter element built in.
Good luck on your project

 

Buy it ! Had a couple of friends in the mid 60s running 292 & 312 y's. The 292 is stronger, but either one can be made to run ! Stock from the factory 312 in a 57 Ford Custom 3oo with 2 fours & supercharged could do a 1/4 mile in the 14's.

 

When I was a kid My dad rebuilt and put a 312+.030 Ford stock into our 1956 Ford long wheel base 1/2 ton pick up. It had 3:93 rear end three speed and 6:70x 15 mud grip tires on it.
There was a straight 1/2 miles dirt road near the ranch, I would come around the corner , get the truck up to 50 mph, mash the gas to the floor and it would start spinning both rear wheel, tearing that road up! Then I’d be all over the brakes, to make sure I could make the turn!
That combo had awesome torque! Was a blast to drive!
Still have that truck in the barn.

 

That’s a great deal,
I paid $700CAD for the 292 and Fordomatic that is in my Country Squire, and I couldn’t hear it run.

Y blocks are a cool period engine and run great, with a little maintenance they will last.



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Actually, larger mains. But, the main web crack problem was real as they use the same casting pattern as the 292, and bored the mains .050 larger, weakening the block in that area. I broke the center web out of one back in the '60s.
About '66/67 my Dad bought a 63 Ford F600 with a weak 292 to use at the salvage as a wrecker.
I built up a 312, 60 over, 10/10 crank a little cam and installed it along with a winch and bed.. Hauled a lot of cars to/from the shop with that thing. Never a minutes problem. Sold it still working when Dad retired in '90.

That little 90deg offset in the oil passage from the block to head was a real issue to. It was rough, as cast iron, and caught every little glob of gunk that came by. Milling the head, even a little, just made it worse. I always ground, radiused and enlarged those on all y blocks. and New cam bearing in everyone I opened up for any reason.

 

There have been several guesses on the carburetor; and I will guess as well. My guess is 1954, either truck or possibly Mercury.

But really, there is no reason to guess, as the identification number is stamped along either the front or rear vertical edge of the throttle body.

Many are guessing 1956.

If this is true, the stamping could look like:

ECZ-9510-B List R-1161-A

Whatever is stamped there, very easy to determine the exact application of the carburetor without guessing.

I will make no guess as to the engine or the value; have no clue.

Jon.

 

If you can get access a 312 will have a dime sized raised casting dot on the side of the flange the flywheel bolts to. 272 and 292 do not.