Technical Dumping the points

So is there a difference if he gets stranded with a points system or a Pertronix? Meanwhile he's had 8 years of not messing with points, and a hotter more intense spark, better combustion, better performance and better mileage. He's already ahead.

 

Next up, a discussion about FI systems. Perfect for OD equipped, electronically ignited, air bagged, traditional rides with 4 wheel discs, that are dripping with patina.

 

You forgot the conditioned air and powered steering

 

Actually, I'm ahead since I have 61 years on the road without being stranded with an ignition issue. I have been stranded by a dead battery, a broken axle (ah, the foibles of youth), being rear-ended, skidding on glare ice into a ditch, but never by a bad set of points.

A couple of the posters above are trying to remind us that this is a "Traditional Hot Rod Forum". I suggest you start paying attention.

 

Forgive my ignorance....how does changing from points to a electronic pickup give you a hotter more intense spark??

 

@tubman I still say that hanging "traditional" on HAMB is incorrect, and it's really some hard liners aspiring to be be "period correct".
I'm turning 82 soon, was 16 and legally driving in 1953, and hanging out with the older hot rodders several years and illegally driving before that. And I know that the hot rodders of that day would buy whatever they could afford if they thought it would make their rod faster. A '49 or later Merc engine was gone before the dust settled from the tow truck dragging it into the salvage yard, and before long, after trans adapters came out,it was the same for the OHV V8s. The way yall would have it, we'd all still be driving bangers!

 

Huh? - "Spreading the gospel of traditional hot rods and customs to hoodlums world wide."

 

Yeah that's what it says, but I'm saying "traditional" ain't the word to use for what's advocated here. It's the best forum for hot rods online and I don't want to get banned or something, but I still say in my day, "traditional" was to get the best you could afford that you felt would improve your hot rod, made no difference whether it had been in use on hot rods for 50 years or 5 days.

 

Unfortunately, these conversations devolve into what traditional hot rodding is. As was expressed by Ryan, this is a site which venerates a period of hot rodding rather than building hot rods which many did using the best available technology at the time.

 

I suggest you actually pay attention to what I've posted. All I've said is that trying to say points ignition is BETTER than electronic is foolish. Just stop trying to say that and I'll stop arguing with you about it. Everyone should use what they want to use, and like what they want to like, I really don't care. I do care that other people, younger or inexperienced people, coming here for reliable information, go away with false ideas. I'm presenting the other side that needs to be presented. If the topic is about maintaining the accuracy of traditional cars, and points are traditional so that's what you should use, that's cool. I haven't and I wouldn't say a word against that. If the topic is which is better, than I will speak up when I see bad info being passed along. Again, stop posting bad info and I won't post anything to correct it.

 

And if the discussion is about what is the proper ignition system to use for traditional or period correct engines than points ignition is correct and I wouldn't say anything otherwise. That's not what you all have been saying.

 

I believe that the purpose of the H.A.M.B. is very clearly stated in the "boiler-plate" on the site (the five terms in the maroon banner across the top of this very page). I know when I joined, I knew exactly what it was all about, and my experiences over the last 12 years prove that I had it right from the start. Some people just don't get it and want to argue, and I believe that to some extent, it is my duty to try to set them straight. Most of the time, it doesn't work.

Regarding electronic ignitions. I have one from the late '50's or early '60's that I am going to try if I can find a wiring diagram or instructions, so you can see I have nothing against them per se. I realize that the 1965 line is kinda blurred. I will even occasionally mention my '67 Corvette here, because since the C2's overlap the period we're concerned with. Pertronix set up's do not, so I don't believe they are relevant. Run 'em if you want, but this is NOT the place to recommend them.

 

My point ignition system works good enough to make my car quick enough to need a roll bar now.
Just saying.

 

Tell me, how much time have you spent coming up with the condensors you sell? Everything is so bitchin that you have to build your own capacitors to make it work, eh? And doesn't that mean you have a dog in this fight other than just passing along info? I'm just sayin....

 

Of course, just changing from points to an electronic pickup doesn't give a more intense spark. But a complete electronic system does. If we're just talking Pertonix here, add the matching coil, eliminate the ballast resistor, and open up the spark plug gap and you will get a hotter more intense spark, especially versus a points system that is out of adjustment due to a wear or has poor conductance due to pitted contacts, and/or a faulty condesor; all of which can and does lead to a weaker/inconsistent spark. But I don't think the discussion is limited to Pertronix, I believe it is about electronic ignition, which includes other systems, such as GM HEI for instance. And yes, those systems will provide a hotter, more intense spark.

 

Ok.....so couldn't I just put a better coil on my system that still uses points, adjust the plug gap and get the same effect?

 

I still have the points installed that came in my 396 when I swapped it into my 55 Chev in 1971. I added a capacitive discharge ignition module in 1973, and this point triggered system has served me reliably, with only on failure of the module, until I removed the engine last year. The beauty of the CD system I used, made by Heathkit and Delta, was that there was a switch that restored the points system if (or when) the electronic unit failed.
I also have 4 other vehicles with point ignition systems, that also have the CD ignition module. These units cut the current through the points by over 90%, and if the points are kept properly lubricated and clean, they would last for longer than I'll be alive.
The first CD units were operational in the early 60s, and were designed to provide a high voltage to the secondary system, with the benefits are faster starting, longer plug life, and no plug fouling. They are not a racing system, such as the MSD system, designed to provide high current to the plugs. The CD system provides a higher voltage so that the plugs can be set at .040"-.050", instead of the .25"-.35".
My point here is, that you can upgrade your system, keep your points, and a flip of a switch gives you a backup for the trip home if an electrical component fails. I know they are still available, the names to search for would be: Delta Mark 10, Heathkit CD, RadioShack CD, or Tiger CD ignition system. They were very common, and are still obtainable. There is one offered on epay for over $300, but that is asking too much in my opinion.
Here is a youtube description:

Bob

 

That my friend, I consider a low blow. I made something for myself that I needed. Others showed an interest and convinced me to make a few more. I developed these not because there are no reliable condensers available, but because they are a replacement for a traditional piece of speed equipment that is no longer available. I don't suppose you realize how ridiculous a Mallory Rev-Pol or a Harmon-Collins dual coil distributor look with a couple of regular condensers hanging off the side? You probably don't because I don't think have a clue what this is all about.

I am done now; I have a whole bunch of condensers I have to make.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^For that"hotter" coil to produce more spark it has to be wound with a different ratio of secondary vs primary windings and also draw more amps, which is gonna burn your points sooner, whereas if the switching is done by a properly designed and built solid state device, the increased current is no problem Some of the modern stuff for blown fuelers and nitrous cars have ignition systems that draw in excess of 10-12 amps.Try to enlarge the contact area on points and you increase the weight, leading to the points floating at high rpm. Sure, then you can add another spring on the points and we used to do this, but it was strictly for competition use, as the increased spring pressure caused increased wear on the rubbing block on the points and they started closing up. For short runs only.

 

Maybe a little OT, but I would assume that matchbooks, like almost everything else in this world have been "cheapened" by using thinner stock, these days. Does anyone know if there is a cut-off year for matchbooks, with the right thickness, to use for an emergency gap gauge for my points? (I'm pretty sure I know the answer is going to be 1964)

 

That's because of el-cheapo imported condensers. Junk parts. Not really a fair criticism.

Someone mentioned leaving the key on without the engine running and burning up a Pertronix module. To be fair this can also destroy a point system, and the coil, if the points happen to be closed on the distributor cam.

The operator's manual nor the shop manual for my truck mentions this "feature", maybe some of them did. I've seen pictures of ignition coils that spewed wire 'n oil far and wide across the engine bay because of this.

 

You are correct. You can easily spot pretty old matchbooks, they used to put the striking surface on the front of the book, not the back, like they do now. Don't get me started on what they did to my beloved Ohio Blue Tip "Strike Anywhere" matches.

Kids. Lawn. You get off it.

 

I'm using points just because I like the looks of that old time red translucent spark plug wires that I'm using. Nothing to do with efficiency; merely appearance.

Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I mic'd a modern issue matchbook cover, it's about .015", so not too far off the beam.