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Technical Liquid tire balancer

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 28fordroadster, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. 28fordroadster
    Joined: Apr 14, 2010
    Posts: 65

    28fordroadster
    Member

    I have a 28 roadster with coker dirt track tires on the rear. They are 15" wheels and have a very large side wall. Because there is so much tire they are difficult to balance. Does anyone have experience with liquid tire balancer? I guess they use it on big trucks. Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Bill
     
  2. do a search for dyna beads. many conversations on them over the years. same concept
     
  3. uncleandy 65
    Joined: Jan 14, 2013
    Posts: 4,140

    uncleandy 65
    Member

    We had people use it in their motorcycle tires. If they brought a flat tire in to be repaired we sent them back out the door. There is no way to fix a flat and not get that stuff all over everything. I'm not a fan of that product.
     
  4. Do you know anybody with a Bubble Balancing Cone......?
    You put the Tire on the Cone and watch the Bubble in the Center
    and Balance that way.

    Just my 3.5 cents

    Live Learn & Die a Fool
     

  5. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    .
    I grew up using them at Sears Auto Center in the 60's back when there were more tire/wheel combinations you described. 4 weights were always used.
    2 front and 2 back. I was taught all 4 set on the front all matching size and as light as they could , 2 and 2 splitting the balance spot where the bubble was in the center, mart the tread and put the 2 on the back, put the tire back on the balancer and set on the the 2 front ones, make the adjustment for those 2 to bring the ball back into the center.
    Rarely if ever had a come back. We did thousands of them that way. If 4 equal weights were not enough, we broke down the tire and turned it on the rim until it did.
     
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  6. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 5,626

    atch
    Member

    x2. Exactly how we did it in the early 70's in the Goodyear tire shop I worked in part time while in college. Worked every time. b-t-w; ALWAYS new weights. we never reused weights.
     
  7. I use a bubble balancer. However I reuse weights. Cant see any reason not to.
     
  8. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    John Bean and Bear balancers are the way to go. Bubble balancers won't cure the ills of dynamic unbalance.
    Dynamically, at speeds above 25 MPH, the tire has a tendency to gyroscopically 'turn in' (or out) so when it gets to the end of its 'mooring', (tie rod & king pin attachment) it rebounds, or 'bounces'. (shimmy)
    When I read 'death wobble', I'm reminded of hundreds of instances in the shop, whereas customers would argue that they had tires balanced. (they meant bubble balanced)
    It was laughable, but my job was to shake the front down, and cure the problem.
    We could have sold a boatload of unnecessary parts, but thankfully, my boss was honest. I'd advise them we were going to balance tires. (not in extreme cases of bad ball joints, tie rod ends, control arm bushings, etc) But after the repairs, if necessary, the last performance was wheel balance. (tire balance, actually; wheels are not generally out of balance: If they are, tire balance makes the final 'adjustment')
    To say they were amazed was accurate, and the procedure always repaid me in confidence. Some tires were 'square', (the owner's definition) so we also had a tire truer.
    Removing that much tread alarmed Joe Customer...but to be truthful, a round tire with minimal rolling resistance and TRUE balance will pay for the service, (demonstrated to us in tests performed, for this reason)
    If I walk into a tire shop with a bubble balancer, I look for a dreamer.
     
    burl, blowby and Hnstray like this.
  9. And yet ive been driving for over 50 years on bubble balanced tires. And never experienced any problems.
     
  10. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    SAM, couldn't get his salt flat wheels and tires right... he took them to the vintage motorcycle guys...
    they used a bubble / cone style balancer...
    also used a swing set looking thing to check the wheels or tires for runout...
    they did the trick... thanks P + P ...
     
    koolbeans, pitman and Old wolf like this.
  11. Find someone with a Hunter road force balancer and give it a try. That's what I see people doing to cure problems.
     
    Black_Sheep and INVISIBLEKID like this.
  12. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 5,626

    atch
    Member

    Well, I couldn't either, but the fella that owned the store insisted so that's what I did.
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  13. If you get a tire that needs truing or cant be successfully balanced with a bubble balancer. If its a new tire return it. If its a old tire don't use it. Cut a big slit in the sidewall and discard it. Its that simple.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  14. Oh sh+t, should not have said that. Now you are in trouble! LOL. I agree with you.

    Ben
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  15. Gangrene
    Joined: May 22, 2019
    Posts: 64

    Gangrene
    Member

    We use the beads on truck steer tires they work well no liquid mess you should be able to get them from your local truck tire shop the bag will tell you how much to use
     
    gimpyshotrods and koolbeans like this.
  16. I was driving a Old cab over Freightliner and they installed new steer tires. They shook pretty bad. I stopped in Memphis at Haygoods on presidents island to get them balanced and they where out of round. So I stopped in Byhalia Miss. and bought two good looking used tires (Michilins) and broke the ones on the truck down without removing the wheels and put the used tires on. drove fine without any balancing.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  17. phelan9251
    Joined: Jan 17, 2016
    Posts: 45

    phelan9251
    Member

    I balanced our tyres with birdshot. depending on tyre size requires varying amounts of weight. If i recall a 32"tire needed 6 ounces. There is a spreadsheet on google.
    Its been working all the way up to 37" military tyres fine so far.
     
  18. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    Guess they don't it anymore, but some dealers used to sell what the manufacturer referred to as "Blems" which implied that there was a cosmetic blemish. Money being tight, I bought a set. Turned out that the "Blem" was actually a defect in the construction. You could balance the tire and they would soon be out of balance. Turns out that a ply within the tire wasn't properly assembled and was actually moving within the tire. Can't explain it any better than that.
    Anyway, they replaced the tires with more blems and I had the same problem. Asked the installer to just refund my money and keep the tires as the use of the word "blem" was obviously misleading.
    They replied that "Blems" were not refundable. I flipped their receipt over and pointed to the wording on the back of the receipt that said, "Satisfaction Guaranteed or your money back".

    The local "Big O " stores used to sell recaps......I think it was "Any Size for $9.99" (Might have been $12.99) Can't remember for sure, but I went thru a few sets of those. Did I mention money was tight back then ?
     
  19. tiredford
    Joined: Apr 6, 2009
    Posts: 560

    tiredford
    Member
    from Mo.

    When I was young (69 now) I drove old cars, bought used bias tires, never had them balanced, never had a blowout, almost never had a flat, no death wobble, no tire bounce, no front end alignment, no problems. Now, I bought new bias ply tires, new tubes, and new steel wheels. I had all those problems except a blowout. Replaced with radials, drives perfect now. Just saying.
     
  20. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    And yet? What you don't know won't hurt you.
     
  21. Large sidewall should not be an issue for balancing. I ran 44" Super Swampers when I was in Mexico and never had a balance problem. Usually if a tire cannot be balanced it is a tire quality issue not a sidewall height issue.
     
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  22. big john d
    Joined: Nov 24, 2011
    Posts: 366

    big john d
    Member
    from ma

    go to an nhra event and watch the hoosier tire guy bubble balance the alcohol funny car slicks ( probaly the top fuel tires also)
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  23. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,217

    ekimneirbo

    WoW! How many miles do you have on them? :D:D:D
     
    blowby likes this.
  24. There are some 825 x 20 tires on my 66 ford F 600 that where on it before I got married 46 years ago. However they have never been balanced. Of course not the exact same set of bubble balanced tires not even the same vehicles. My point is if you cannot do a adequate job with a bubble balancer . Either you don't know how or the tires and or rims have serious problems.
     
    firstinsteele likes this.
  25. Ive learned that as I go thru life sometimes there is something you are 100% certain is a certain fact no wiggle room or any doubt. Then you find out that's not the way it is after all. Ive driven semi trucks over a million miles. Just one truck I personally drove over 500,000 miles. Never once needed any high tech tire or wheel balancing.
     
  26. I prefer a bias ply. However very few tires of any type are made in the USA any more. Most are made in some third world place by the lowest bidder. We used to run those bias 8 ply Coop Grip Spur tires on the rear. and when they wore slick would get then recapped . Sometimes recapped several times. Ran a 8 ply Highway tread on front and when it got slick. We would get it recapped as a rough tread Knobby also. My mother drove fords had a set of 15 inch wheels. Equipped with those rough tread tires. Sometimes she would have to stop so us kids could chase wallowing hogs out of the big mud holes in the road before she drove thru them at speed. The red clay mud would settle and stick to the bottom portion of the rim and set up. man talk about unbalance! We would chisel it loose with a hammer and screwdriver. My father took a old 275 gallon fuel oil drum and made a gravety dump trailer. Us kids hooked it to a B John Deere and picked up rocks out of the fields and dumped them in the Hog Wallows. We eventually got them filled up. It was a sorry neighbors hogs that he let free range. Those hogs came and broke into my Rabbitt cages and killed and ate my Rabbits. Made me mad. So I put out corn and shot several of the biggest hogs up the Butt with a 22 rifle. The ones I shot some died pretty quick and some lingered. The neighbor thought the Hogs caught a disease and quickly sold the healthy ones at the sale barn. It took a mad 10 year old kid to solve the free range hog problem.
     
  27. Road force is a diagnostic tool, has nothing to do with better balancing, very helpful in finding a problem with a tire even though it balances fine, just don’t let anyone fool you into thinking it is a magical balancing tool


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    X-cpe and Old wolf like this.
  28. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 6,711

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I'm not a big fan of putting anything in tires but air {or water if you're dealing with farm equipment}. Those plastic beads turn to dust in a little while, BB's or bird shot eat the rubber inner liner on tires, golf balls will do the same thing. I prefer external weights, clip or stick on. That being said, there is a product called Slime that I will use in my lawnmower tires that will keep you from getting flats from thread punctures, but I don't use it in any highway tires, and it's not for balancing anyway.

    My semi truck has a product called Centrimatics on it, a steel ring welded to a flat center that goes between the hub and the wheel. It operates on the same principal as putting beads or golf balls in your tires, the welded steel tubes are filled with oil and steel balls. They seem to do a good job on the truck tires, and they make them in some smaller sizes like 15".
     
    46international likes this.
  29. enjenjo
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 2,689

    enjenjo
    Member
    from swanton oh

    I had a 34 Ford a while back that would get a death wobble that I was tasked with fixing. I had the tires balanced with a bubble, with a spin balancer and with a road force machine, It still would do it.. I broke down one bead and put in 6 oz of airsoft pellet gun beads, and had no more problems. That was three years ago and they are still going strong.
     
  30. Once again, a road force machine is a spin balancer with the ability to measure road force variation, where we can get a hop from, the actual balancing is exactly the same.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     

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