Nope , He's had a little bit of everything. The T-Bolt was the first Ford I ever saw him in. Then the ex ''Coal Digger'' car and Billy Glidden in the Probe. All else have been G.M. products. Wen he was involved with racing no one was more generous than him in helping so many sportsman racers.
Yes it is Speedwrench. Tommy, I guess the first car I remember was the ex ”Coal Digger” ran SS/I as I remember. I could not remember who originally owned that car so I googled it. Don Bowles had it and ran SS/K.
Again I’m back asking questions and not trying to mess up the thread but I hope my questions are legit. Thanks to Chuck Norton I have downloaded and printed all of the rule books from ‘58-‘68 and put them in a binder. I’m reading the 1961 rule book now and on pages 14-15 for the stock car classes it lists the Designations based upon shipping weight versus advertised HP. Question #1: was there a guide for shipping weight published by NHRA? I mean did NHRA actually weigh them or just use the Pontiac’s advertising numbers? For example if I was running a ‘61 Catalina 2-door hardtop w a V8 I only find 3650 lbs as the shipping weight from Pontiac’s own advertising but they don’t differentiate between types of transmissions or even between sedans and convertibles. Q2: if I was entering this ‘61 Catalina in competition under “Engine” requirements also on page 14 it states “ in each car must be of the specific type, year and make as the car in which it is being run”. So the NHRA would check the engine codes and head castings (to ensure I hadn’t pulled the 389 and installed a 421)? It also states under the carburetor section “must be the correct year make and model” so I also assume they checked the carb casting numbers? (In some cases these were just tags...) As I read all the requirements it appears I will have to start by purchasing a vehicle with its original (or correct) engine, transmission and diff to be even close to the rules. I believe I understand that as long as the engine installed is in fact a ‘61 model year block and heads it would be correct (even if the vehicle was sold new with a different engine). I’m going to have more questions as I pursue locating the correct car to buy but wanted to get these few questions out of the way. Thank you all for being patient and helping me with understanding the rules. Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Yes there was a stock car classification guide but here is the new one. http://www.nhraracer.com/content/general.asp?articleid=46635&zoneid=132
Yes that helps a ton!! I did look around on the NHRA website but was using my phone and couldn’t find that. Thank you Junior Stock! Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Yep. And the still existing railroad tracks in the immediate background. The cars are in the staging lanes before they make the left turn onto the strip itself Roo
Yes they check all those things BUT back then you had to use original parts not necessarily of the exact same car or year but the same type. But now there are all types of substitutions allowed with more modern parts because old stuff is so hard to locate or no longer made. So if you are just building for your pleasure to old rules you don't need to use EXACTLY the parts that originally came with your particular car just made for the same type and year of car. Like you can use any engine of the same size and year of your car it doesn't have to be the exact one that came with your car.
A lot of guys running Nostalgia Super Stock and Nostalgia stock use 455 Pontiac engines in their cars instead of 389's. Same for the Chevy guys using 350's or 400 engines instead of 283's and the same up grades for other brands. . Its all a bracket race as long as they have the "Look" of a Jr. stocker or S/S from the old days. Its less expensive in the long run. Same for the transmissions and rear ends. I'm assuming you are just wanting to play with the guys and gals in some of the NMCA type races ????
LB, Thanks for the response and clarification. Yes I’m just building one for fun (since I wanted to start racing again anyways so I figured I might as well do it like they did 60 years ago). And obviously I am the judge of my own car but I did want to understand the rules to the extent of how they were written back then. Besides some modern safety equipment I do plan on using period correct speed equipment where the rules allowed (cams, shifter. Traction devices, etc). I guess the bottom line is I had planned on building an old Pontiac to go bracket racing anyways so I figured I might as well build it to “race against the past” so to speak and it would also be H.A.M.B. friendly for our events. Thanks again for lighting this fire with all of the pictures you post of that era. Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
[QUOTE="Terry Bell, post: 13170760, member: 281858" I'm assuming you are just wanting to play with the guys and gals in some of the NMCA type races ????[/QUOTE] Terry, Honestly I was building one because that era of racing has stuck with me since I was 16 and reading old magazines about them. I have not looked into any of the events that they run today with them but I will now as it sounds that there are others doing the same thing I am wanting to do. Thanks for the information I will go look into the NMCA. Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
There are at least 2 of the older Pontiacs running in Stock Eliminator now. They are in the lower classes so I would think they are 389's.
Terry, Honestly I was building one because that era of racing has stuck with me since I was 16 and reading old magazines about them. I have not looked into any of the events that they run today with them but I will now as it sounds that there are others doing the same thing I am wanting to do. Thanks for the information I will go look into the NMCA. Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.[/QUOTE] Randy, I used to work for the NMCA years ago when it was run out of Racing Head Service with the 2 brothers Smeltnicks(sp ?) and Ivars was the tech director. I worked for them until the NMCA was sold as a tech guy because stockers and S/S cars were my thing and Ivars had a heart attack and died. . I started going to a strip back in 1963 named Aqusco in Southern Md. I raced in Jr. stock until I was drafted in 1966. After the Nam "Vacation" I used to go to strips in Kentucky near Ft. Knox. When I got out of the Army I started racing again with a 1968 Z-28 then a 1969 Corvette in F/S. . Around 1971 I worked for NHRA for about 3 years in Div. 1. I quit them and worked for IHRA for almost 23 years as their head S/S and stock tech guy. I used to write their rule book for sportsman class cars for the about the last 10 or 12 years. I helped start the Nostalgia S/S deal and later the Nostalgia stocker deal. I stopped all tech work about 15 plus years ago as I got old. I'm 73 now but still play with a 79 Corvette in brackets set up as a legal late 70's stocker but I don't race NHRA. Its to much work and $$$$$ now that I'm retired. I was friends before the Army days with a bunch that raced early Super Duty Pontiacs who called themselves "The Indian Tribe". A couple held NHRA records back in the early to middle 1960's. I knew Max Sterling with his 1961 White Lightning SD and stayed in touch with him until he passed away. Joe Perzan raced a 1960 SD station wagon back in the 7 inch tire days. Anyway the Nostalgia S/S class is run off of 1/4 second ET breaks and the same for the National muscle cars (Jr. stockers) but a little slower for those guys. You can find the ET breaks on the NMCA site and their rules. The stockers can use a 10.5 tire and the S/S class use 11.5 tires unless something has changed as of late. . No tear downs just the appearance is all that matters. Hope this helps and you will enjoy it. ! Terry Bell (aka: X-tech man on the Class racer site)
Wow! I had to read that a few times. Clearly you have a lifetime of experience so thank you for sharing! I’d love to hear more about your experiences that’s for sure! I’ve already looked up the schedule for the NMCA and two events are close to me this fall. I like Norwalk (I’ll be there for the Tripower Nats in a few weeks helping to crew my friends 10-second Pontiac) and their event is a few weeks after so that should work out well. Thanks again for your time. Looking forward to hearing more. Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Randy, I have been around except the last several years. Yes I miss the job but nothing ever stays the same. I still keep track of what is going on in NHRA. Stock elim. is NOT stock anymore with all the engine mods allowed. I feel it changed because of all the good Tech guys retiring or passing away. The NHRA seldom does any tear downs the last few years. Time marches on. One gets tired of the BS and the long hours on their feet and late nights inspecting engines in tear down. IHRA was a good racing association until Bill Bader sold it. It went down hill in a hurry after that. If you see Bill at the Norwalk races tell him I said hello and wished he still owned and ran the IHRA. Myself and Mike Keener of "Checkmate" fame started the heads up Top Stock program back in 2001 if you remember anything about that. I have a lot of stories I could tell but its probably best not to post them on this or any other site....LOL. I was also in charge of checking the Pro Stock engines and I had the tools as I used to work for the Dept. of the Navy inspecting machined parts for stuff that went BOOM and ejection aircraft seats. Prior to that I calibrated the precision tools used such as bore gages, dial indicators, dial and electronic calipers, etc. so my stuff was always on the money. I got to know Bill Jenkins, Roy Hill, Bob Glidden, and a ton of others who respected me for my work. I got a call one day at home from Bill GRUMPY Jenkins and he invited me to come up and spend a day at his shop during the small block years. THAT was a day I will never forget. Sonny Lenard the mountain engine builder also said I had it together and "Dead Nuts" a few years before I quit as we used to have all the qualifier's in Pro Stock pull a head. We never used the P&G pump very often. I'm not bragging at all just stating a fact that happened. Love to see some pictures of your car when its done and maybe I can catch up sometime at one of the NMCA races or Norwalk but I moved about 10 years ago from Maryland near Budds Creek drag strip and now live in Florida. But as I said....Time marches on and waits for no one so do it now while you are young ! Terry (aka: X TECH MAN)
Great story Terry. I love to read the history of the sport from those such as yourself who were there. Thanks for posting.
Terry, I remember reading about disqualifications after the race I’m assuming that was during a teardown inspection. What were some of the infractions that you found? Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
1965 NHRA World Championship and Tulsa Invitational Drag Races . Bill Jenkins prepared Monster Mash II 1955 Chevrolet leads Doug Kahl's 1961 Plymouth down the strip, but Doug Kahl's Plymouth will eventually overtake the Chevy. EDIT: from Chuck Norton Doug's car is a 1962
The caption writer needs another cup of coffee this morning. Kahl's Plymouth was a '62. It's a small distinction but the 361", 305 hp combination produced a lot of victories for Plymouth in that era. Part of the secret was the Torque-flight transmission that provided a big boost for Chrysler during the early-mid 60's. c
Lots of things such as pistons with to small of a dish as it seems that before I came to work the tech guys never C.C. d the piston dish. They just looked at it to see if it had a dish. or checked the depth with a caliper. One guy I checked was using pistons from another engine combo that had a dish much smaller than the ones he should have been using. It was a newer Chevy Chevelle but I don't remember what year it was but the pistons were from a V-6 but he ran a V-8 combo. He was a constant top 10 car and I bounced it. It embarrassed him so bad that he sold the car and bought a boat to go fishing. This was at Bristol Tenn. many many years ago . Cam shafts that were out of spec. in stock, wrong head casting numbers, Q- jet carbs that should have been the 730 CFM Chevy carb and not the larger ones off a 455 Buick or Pontiac, ported heads under the valves, stiffer valve springs, the usual. Most of these cars were NOT the NHRA regulars. The NHRA regulars were from a tighter run ship....LOL. This would all be legal in the Nostalgia races of today unless you just want to play with what have been a legal drive train from the past. Today its all about the "LOOK" not how fast you can run or how much $$$$ you can spend with pre determined indexes !.
Chuck is on the money all the time. He lived it back in the day. I first met him at the first TOP STOCK meet at Norwalk Ohio in 2001. He is a great guy and wished I had known him when he ran his Corvette in I/S. Calif. is a long way from Maryland and I only went to Pomona once back in 1978. 49 hours one way towing a 1969 Camaro 255 HP rag top named "MR. CLEAN " stopping only for gas, a burger, and to take a leak. . The owner and driver was also named Terry Hillard from Shepard's Town West Va. and he red lighted the first round of class. That was when you had to win class to run in the eliminator. Oh well.
Yeah, I wish you'd been here, too, Terry. I could have used some oversight! Showed your highly complimentary comment to my wife and grown daughters. They're not convinced but every little bit helps. Highest regards, c
Terry, Ok so can I ask how the process normally went? Did the owner disassemble with you nearby to inspect and measure parts? Was the area kinda closed off so competitors couldn’t have a look? How long did the process take? Were winners always torn-down? I’ve read from Steve Cox that his mom and dad’s ‘61 Catalina was always being inspected and in one case the camshaft was actually taken and sent off to be analyzed further. I understand this was a high profile case since Carol was the first woman driver and winner. From my standpoint it would seem that performing these inspections would require a high level of specific vehicle information and details. Did you perform inspections on all vehicle makes or did you specialize so to speak? Hope you don’t mind all of the questions but actually talking with you and Chuck is a thrill for me! Regards, Randy Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.