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Technical 1959 mercury 312 y-block questions.....

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Craig Christian, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    FB_IMG_1498142048938.jpg Ok so a couple years ago I pulled and rebuilt my motor..... the first year after the break in period it ran great water temp right where I like it...even when idling after a long drive.... (original temp gauge so dont know actual temperature) .... well last year I noticed that the water temperature "appears" to be a bit higher than I like to see it........ I need to double check the valve lash ..... guess I'm just wanting to know what else I should put on my list of things I need to look at...... hope that makes sense....... thanks in advance for any help you can give.......
     
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  2. Clogged radiator. late timing. too lean a fuel mixture. bad hoses. worn impeller on water pump. bad thermostat. I would flush my cooling system and add premixed antifreeze.
     
    Oldioron likes this.
  3. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    You know your ride better than anyone, if something changed look into it.
     
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  4. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    Radiator was recored just before the rebuild water pump flows good thermostat working correctly (I pulled and tested), timing is a possibility as the gears and chain were brand new when I rebuilt the motor so could have stretched and I hadn't thought of it being two lean of a fuel mixture........ I'll need to check that
     
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  5. williebill
    Joined: Mar 1, 2004
    Posts: 3,274

    williebill
    Member

    Gorgeous car. Glad you kept the y-block. Good luck.
     
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  6. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 892

    AldeanFan

    What are you using for a temperature gauge?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 1,143

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The best investment you can make with a y block is an infrared thermometer from Amazon or someone. Cheap, $20-25 works fine. I don’t know what gauges they were using by 59, but a lot of minor items tend to cause variances in the ford gauges. The old King Seeley gauges especially. With the sender in the back of the head, it will read hotter at the thermostat housing than the gauge location. It doesn’t sound like you’re overheating, so find out what the temperature really is.
     
  8. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    6697D328-35D6-4F50-A77B-0E7576490BF1.jpeg Hey! I’ve got one of those! Not many around!







    Bones
     
  9. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    Nice....... is that a 3 speed manual??? Reason I ask is I'm looking for the transmission mount that attaches to the crossmember......
     
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  10. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    The original one...... all it says is \temp/
     
  11. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    Thanks..... had to keep the original motor....... The car only has 53,000 original miles on it and has never been restored....... basically all original car..... I was able to put it on air ride without having to modify or cut any of the suspension........ that's the only reason I put it on air.......
     
  12. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    With today's gasoline, at least it's what I blame it on, Y-blocks seem to run hotter. On the Yblocksforever site they write of many fixes. For me it was speeding up the water pump by using a 302 Ford Mustang bought from Summit along with pulley spacer kit. Also is putting a plug in the short hose from the thermostat housing to the pump and drilling a 1/8" hole in it..this is a well known fix.
    The pulley deal is ez to test. Start with a cold engine, remove the radiator cap, start engine and let warm up to operating temp high enough you know the thermostat is open, look in the rad to see if there is any movement of water, if none raise idle very slightly, (100-200 rpm) if there is water movement then you need a smaller pulley on the pump so water moves at idle.
    This actually helps in normal driving too. Good luck..great looking Mercury...
     
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  13. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    You mention a plug in the smaller hose and drilling a 1/8th inch hole in it...... my question is what will that do other than slow the flow down through there...... I guess I'm not sure what that smaller hose is for........ I thought it was a bypass hose..... i feel kinda dumb right now....lol
     
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  14. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    No it’s got a Ford-a-matic in it and a 292 two barrel. Sorry.




    Bones
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  15. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    That little hose is a by-pass for the water pump. Most all engines have one some where. Chevies are built into the water pump. If you “ dead head” a water pump it will create a lot of heat. Like you I cannot see reducing that by-pass to 1/8 inch helping cool an engine..... but I have seen stranger things.




    Bones
     
  16. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Craig, it is a bypass hose allowing the coolant to bypass the radiator when the engine is warming up. When it does warm up it continues to bypass too much coolant (in a lot of guys opinion including mine) adding to the temperature of the coolant in the engine. Too many of us Y-block guys we need to have more coolant going thru the radiator during normal use. I used a 3/8" brass pipe plug in the middle of the hose with the 1/8" hole drilled in it.

    I do not know if you have a fan shroud or not, my 56 did not, and a guy in Texas made them. I added a 5 blade fan along with the 160 thermostat my engine finally became stable in all kinds of weather. I was then able to put in a 170* thermostat as the engine was originally equiped.
    All my thermostats have been high-flow and there is a difference. They are available for Mopar engines and work in our Yblocks.

    My car, for some climates, also had a panel above the radiator and front facia mount. I found one and added it with a rubber seal. This forced all the air entering the grille to go thru the radiator which really helped. Before it was added much of the air did not enter the radiator but went over it which helped the under hood temp but didn't do much to help cool the engine.

    Ford actually made many water pump pulleys from in the 5-7+" range for different parts of the country and weather needs. A winter car in Maine didn't have the same cooling requirements as Arizona summers.

    Remember we never had these problems before ethanol was added to our gasoline..I blame most of this on it and I drove these cars in the 50-60's
     
  17. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    I've seen a lot of people talking about running a 170° high flow thermostat...... and running a smaller pulley on the water pump to speed up the flow........ now call me stupid but for coolant to cool down I needs to stay in the radiator for a certain amount of time...... correct?? Speeding up the flow to much could potentially have the reverse affect because it cant stay in the radiator long enough to drop the temperature....... right?? I've been thinking of putting an electric fan on the radiator on the grill side to push more air past the fins on the radiator but I'd rather figure out why the temps seem higher..... then I can fix the actual issue before it turns into something bigger..... if that makes sense...... I'll be digging in to it this weekend as the heat is a bit to overwhelming right now to be playing with a hot motor......lol
     
  18. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    And as a side note I always run premium fuel with a lead additive...... and oil has a zddp additive in it as well
     
  19. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you followed what I said the flow test about little to no flow at idle you can see what I mean. Where I live we idle way too much when driving place to place and the radiator could never catch up. My engine never sees 3000 rpm barely 2500 which is fine with the smaller pulley. I'm assuming the coolant exchange is fine becaus mines been this way for 5 years.
    Automatic engines also run hotter due the torque converters of that era.
     
  20. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 892

    AldeanFan

    +1 on using the infrared temp gun to determine the exact temperature your car is running.

    My Y block has the opposite problem of many, it won’t overheat idling but gets hot running on the highway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    I do understand what your saying....... and mine is a 3 speed manual......
     
  22. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 1,143

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’m another one with the drilled plug in the bypass hose, I used a 3/16” hole IIRC. There’s a ton of water going thru that even with the stat open. A friend hooked up a garden hose, and checked it. Lots of water.

    Jimmy is also right about air bypassing the radiator. A tight shroud well sealed, and the panels to force air thru the radiator at speed are a major improvement. I’ve fought this for 20 years and several motors in the bird, and it’s solved.

    I still think you need to check everything with an infrared thermometer and make sure you’ve got a cooling problem and not a gauge problem. You’ll be able to check the temp at the sender, the upper and lower radiator hose, even down the radiator itself, all with the engine running at low and fast idle. My cheap units are typically within 1 degree of the Fluke meters my HVAC guy uses to check air delivery temps. I even use it to set the griddle temp for perfect pancakes.

    AldeanFan, you might try that solution, too. The combination of bypassed water and air going around the radiator could be part or all of your problem at speed.
     
  23. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    What's the perfect temp for pancakes?
     
  24. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When you throw water on the cook top and it splatters:rolleyes:
     
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  25. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 696

    coilover
    Member
    from Texas

    57 Fairlane 500 312 engine with add on a/c ran hot so new aluminum radiator with shroud and 6 blade fan. 195 and it's only in the 90's so see trouble ahead. Ran cool without a/c. Fan is half in shroud, timing right, exhaust not restricted, and tried running with hood up six inches for air flow (57 hoods open at rear), No change so if you find out what your problem is please post it.
     
  26. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    To be honest I didnt see this post when I was asking about coolant flowing to fast through the radiator....... after seeing it I understand a lot more of why the plug in the bypass hose would lower the engine temp
     
  27. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    Ok....... update on my temps....... it got up to 195 at the temperature sensor, 193 at the bypass hose, 201 after the thermostat and 203 before the thermostat......... I'm going to pickup a 170° hi-flow thermostat and install the 3/8 ths plug with a 3/16 ths hole in it into the bypass hose ....... after that's done I'll post my results.......
     
  28. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    That's about perfect, isn't it?
     
  29. 59Tele
    Joined: Feb 5, 2016
    Posts: 129

    59Tele

    Well now we're getting somewhere.
     
  30. Craig Christian
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 25

    Craig Christian
    Member
    from Indiana

    Ok folks....... so just installed a 170° hi-flo thermostat and installed a plug with a 3/16ths hole in it in the bypass hose...... and all my temps dropped over 10° and if I bring the rpms up I can actually watch the temp gauge drop....... so before the change I was around 205 before the thermostat and now I'm at 195 roughly... after thermostat was at 200 roughly now at 190 roughly..... bypass hose was at 193 now at around 185 ........ looks like that should do very well..... and its hotter today outside than it was when I took the initial readings.......
     

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