I recently bought a 38 Ford Coe with no title. I want to put a later model frame and drive train. I need to know what the title matches up to. As I understand there is no vin on the truck or the title, just a serial number? Also, will the title say COE on it? I am in Illinois which is terrible for getting a title. From DMV, I need the title for both vehicles (the 38 and donor vehicle). They will inspect and issue a new title as the 38. Here is the problem, everyone tells me to just get a 38 title and use it. I need the title that matches my serial number. PS: I know there is a COE section here.
This problem has been discussed several times and the best info is: different states have different rules! Solution: if your state won’t register your vehicle, make a deal with a close friend ( you can trust) in a state that had relaxed laws.... get It registered..... transfer it to your state. That’s the hard way, but it will work.....most of the time! Bones
To the best of my knowledge, the COE part is inconsequential...it’s a ‘Truck’. Illinois is not all that bad about titles if you follow the procedures. That opinion is based on my experience over the years on several vehicles, including ‘bonded title’ vehicles. Sometimes the local DMV is unfamiliar with the unusual title process. If that is the case, ask them for a phone number of a person in the Secretary of State’s office and have your ducks in a row when you call. Bear in mind, they are trying to avoid scam titles. Bills of Sale for untitled parts you purchased (like a chassis for example, or the truck cab) are not unreasonable requests. Ray
I don't live in Illinois, but this is how I'd do it anywhere. First, get a title for your truck before you modify anything. Right now it's just an old truck and nobody knows it might be modified later. If you need to get a bonded title, do it while there is still the original number on the transmission or frame. If possible get your plates too. Then they will never need to know that you later put it on a different frame. But take lots of pics of all the parts you switch out in case someone asks later.
Find a Street rod shop or a small used car dealer that has been there forever, close to you. Ask them what the correct procedure is in your state. Listen to what they say do not interrupt them or question them. They know the correct way to do it. If it sounds too complicated ask them about other "accepted" methods. Do not tell them how some guy at a car show said how to cheat it. Do not tell them how you think you can cheat it. It always cranks me up when somebody asks me the correct way to deal with the state about car titles then tells me how they are going to do it. I have sold used cars for many years and have run into most of the problems that can happen. I know my states answer to the problem, and I may know how to get the job done without breaking any rules but not exactly in the order the state wants to have it done.
Before I commented on this post I went to your states dmv site , actually the Secretary of states web site and did some research on titling . They actually have a simple form for home built customize cars /motorcycles/ hot rods. You would need the serial number { stamped on the frame rail on the drivers side by steering box}of the coe cab ,the vin number of the doner chassis truck { the current title of that truck would be best} and if you are using the doner drive train you are set. other wise you would need to show where you got the engine and trans. You would most likely need to get a surety bond for the for the coe cab. In Wisconsin it is based on purchase price or a min 2000.00 value. I recently got one for a 36 Plymouth at a value of 5800.00 and the bond cost a 100.00 dollars. the whole process cost me about 500.00 with registration and taxes. But I now have a legal title and did not commit fraud! Buying a title or going out of state can bite you in the ass. Do the research and ignore all the horror stories you hear. best of luck Larry
Find a title service ,and have them get a title.You might also be able to file a lien sale to get title.Tow companies do it a lot.
The correct way is to do a home builder title. The problem is, you have to have it built before you can get a title for it. Be sure you have a receipt (and have paid sales tax) for all of the parts you install. If you were rebuilding the current truck, you could do a Bonded title if the serial numbers on the truck are good. Either method has a set of hoops you have to jump through, do the process the way "they" tell you and it does work out pretty well. Our local DMV isn't the place to go to do this kind of stuff, your's may be better. We have a local License Service that is pretty good that I use. Gene
The only advice I can give is don't put any money into the project until you get the title situation straightened out. It is possible you could have the entire vehicle finished with no title, and someone else could come up with a title and you could loose everything. If finished the tax will be much more than if you license it in it's current condition.
Farm it out same as you would an interior job, chrome plating, etc. Us Hotrodders are used to doing all we can ourselves. This is a trade job for the experts. Dealing with the DMV is right up there with a death in the family. Why torture yourself??? Hire a 3rd party vehicle registration service to take care of all the legwork for you. One that specializes and is familiar with classic cars (ask your local Rodders who they use). Show the 3rd party service what you have and that you'd like to walk away with a clean '38 title (not a 2019 'special construction' type title). They'll print out all the DMV forms for you, have you sign them and send you home. Think of them as a law firm that does all your DMV dirty work so you can spend your free time doing something you LIKE to do. They'll jump through all the flaming hoops on your behalf and have a title for you in no time. It'll be the best couple hundred bucks you spend. No runarounds, repeat trips to the DMV, sleepless nights or Maalox.
There is no such thing in Iowa. You Californians (and any other locations) are lucky if you have professionals that can do this for you.
I seriously doubt any such firm exists anywhere that could work such ‘magic’ for the situation the OP presented. Ray
Register the COE with the stock frame numbers, then depending on your state and and any post build checks,,, Never give more information than the question asks for,,, "Is that a 38??" Yes it is,,, "Did they come with that suspension?" It was upgraded for road safety,,,,
Don't know how it works in your state but you could get it registered and plated with the original frame number and then find out how to get a state assigned vin to the cab so you could do a frame swap. Before I got drafted I had an o/t MGTD that I had to have the CHP assign a vin because the original vin was missing when I bought the car. It was still registered as a 1950 MG but it didn't have an original vin. I have a buddy with a '30 AV8 that has a state assigned vin since the Model A was originally registered by the engine number so when the 4 banger was swapped he had a new vin assigned and attached to the door pillar. Still registered as a '30 but no having to lift the body to see the vin.
I wish I could. I would gladly spend a few hundred to get this done. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a title in Illinois.
I think I found the form you are talking about. "The applicant may apply for a title, without ownership documentation, if he/she submits bills of sales and utilizes the bonding procedures set forth in 625 ILCS 5/3-109." That just may work. Thank you.
If you read the "procedures set forth in 625 ILCS 5/3-109 you will find the that to get a bond you will need a serial number verification by a Police officer and he can't do that until you have a very near street legal vehicle. A bonded title requires a wholesale value and a statement that the vehicle can be made to be safe to use on the roadways of IL, by someone licensed to sell vehicles in IL. It also requires a Surety Bond for 1 1/2 x the wholesale value. It also requires that police serial number inspection the officer has to sign off on. It also requires 4 pictures of the vehicle, and a receipt for the purchase price. The vehicle needs to be pretty close to, or appear to be pretty close to being drivable, but it doesn't have to be finished. Now, if you have a friend that is a police officer and a friend that is licensed to sell vehicles in IL, and it looks pretty complete in pictures, maybe you can get by with it a little less complete. Having a title that matches the serial number on the vehicle sure makes it much easier. Gene
cougstang, I hope that info proves helpful. Like everyone else I was afraid dealing directly with the dmv would be a nightmare . But the more I heard ,read, and talked to others about the so called other options I decided those would be a bigger nightmares. Get the bonded title for the coe first because the assessed value for the bond will be lower and the cost of the bond will be cheaper. after that even if someone came up with a title and proved previous ownership they would only be entitled to the value assessed at the time of the bond not the truck or its restored value. Also they would have to prove it was reported stolen during their ownership. The dmv does a serial number/ vin check before they issue a title. You can then put what ever plates you see fit. Most of my old cars are modified to one degree or another some wear collector plates and some vanity plates and others hobby plates. when my 36 Plymouth is done it will have hobby plates. In Wisconsin hobby plates applications require a description of modifications and can be subject to inspection. So far I have never had to . Example a 34 I built a number of years back. Again good luck and post progress on the build. Larry Edit in response to genes post. That maybe true in Il. In Wisconsin only the serial number on a 20 year or older car or truck needs to be inspected and does not have to be road worthy at that time . Again do the research for your state regarding vintage/ collector type cars and trucks. The statures may differ on a 1938 Ford and say a 2003 Toyota. Larry
@gene-koning I have gotten bonded titles for a few cars in Illinois over the years, the most recent about two years ago.....while I agree with key points in your post, I did not encounter many of the details you describe. None of the cars I got bonded title issued for were in running condition, though they were complete....a little rough, but complete. The primary issues were a police verification of serial number/VIN, an appraisal from a dealer and the bond from my insurance broker.....in addition to the title app, of course. Ray
Pretty good advice from HnStray, Gene-Koning and One Baof d 51 Merc. Some real bogus suggestions from a couple of other posters though That seems to happen every time a title question comes up. Gents. why the hell do you keep on throwing out bogus title getting plans every time the question comes up when others who are well in the know give the right answers? There have already been some guys have real hassles with the state or the law when using some of those manufactured title mill titles. A couple of states won't accept a title that was done in certain states by certain companies. Some states take real quick note of titles that come from certain states or certain title companies. I like suggestion of getting it inspected now and getting someone to sign off on the assumed value of it. If you are like half of us the bond will have run it's time period and you can change to a regular title about the time you start driving it. Thing is that it is straight arrow legal and probably costs less than a suspect title. On having the frame swap inspected and having that noted on the title. That is up to you but one of these days there is going to be a shit storm when some guy with a frame swap rig gets in a bad wreck and the insurance decides that said vehicle was not represented to them right and doesn't pay off. Maybe just as bad is using a chassis from a donor that you don't have a title to or a proper sales receipt from a valid wrecking yard. I'm waiting for the day when some guy on one of the Chevy truck groups I am in comes on crying that the S-10 swapped truck that he just spent his life savings building got impounded and then crushed because it was discovered that the frame he used (that he bought as a rolling chassis off Craigslist) was from a stolen truck. It's going to happen it is just a matter of time.
Every search I can find for the cost of a bond for a bonded title says the cost is around 150 for a 7500 bond. That would put the value of the coe cab and chassis at 5K as you found it. If you can get a bond for a couple hundred bucks that beats the tar out of chasing all over tying to do it the hard and maybe suspect way.
I just went through a title bonding process in IL in Oct 2018. The process I laid out is the current process being used. I did a bonded title a few years ago, it was not as drawn out as the current process is. When they added the Police serial number inspection, a lot of stuff changed. The officer did indeed have me start my truck, but I'm not sure having it not running would have been an issue. When you jump through the States hoops, the titles are issued very quickly. I think the Oct title was issued within a month of the date the paper work was sent down state. As a side note, I just transferred a late 40s MO titled truck into my name. So far, there has been no issues. I am prepared if someone needs to do a serial number inspection. The entire process took about 15 minutes at the license facility and I didn't need to jump through any hoops. Having a title sure makes it easier. Gene
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