Technical Building a Nitro Engine?

It's always been a dream to have and occasionally race a slingshot/FED car. Like to build a super charged BBC. What type of injection will work? Carbs or fuel injection? What needs to be done to the engine during a build for this to work? Should I cut down the nitro with another fuel or can I run pure nitro? I'm not familiar with the fuel and engines. Like to build it right. Thinking about a 454 and use cast iron heads and forged parts in the block. IE: crank, rods, caps, etc. What else is there to know or do?

 

How deep are your pockets? Read the "Rebuilding After the Crash" thread by racer x probably more info on nitro cars than any other thread. Your plan is doable, but its expensive and a never ending cycle of tuning.

 

As for injectors, I new two guys that would flow them for you. Gene Adams , Ralph Gorr. Then I also had a friend that works for Hilborn injection. For the block a solid I think a rodeck,but Frank and Leana Williams had a tall deck that hauled at Orange County. I don’t know anyone in your area. If you found a contact number for them ,that’s the place to start. If you want to be competitive.

 

Top rings are stainless, and down a minimum of 5/16" from the top of the piston. Run rich, if the recommendation for your nozzle has a 110 return pill start with an 80 and creep up. We only hurt valves until we did this all the way up to 80%. 10.25 compression but I would not afraid to go more. 5amp mag minimum.
We also o-ringed the head and reciever grove in block. .050" ring. We were told this was too much.... They were wrong.
Gene Adams checked the pump once a year.
Drum of nitro was $800 when we ran, more now. We ran Torco for nitro oil. Never had a bearing failure. Piston, crank, or rod for that matter.
Expensive but not out of reach if you buy great parts and think....

 

Not to dash your dreams, but... Check out the price of nitro and the legalities of having it in your possession. Then think about something like 4 or more gallons/run. Then you need a team at the track. it is not a one man car like racing your street car. Your team members will expect you to pay their entry into the track. You will find that you will also need an enclosed trailer and another set if tools. You need the trailer to lock your tools and spares in between rounds.
Oh I forgot your team will need food and drink of some kind.

 

I have thought about that as well. I'd really like to go to fests, etc. Love the nitro cackle. To be honest, I'd be scared to race it much. Do I need to have fuel injection to run nitro? Never seen anyone run carbs. It'll probably do more idling and pissing off neighbors more than anything, but, like to make it race legal. In case I'm up for a pass

 

Sounds like you got plenty of $$$$ so you will be allright!
If you use a 454 be sure and fill it with block hard to help strengthen it. You don't need to worry about the heat.....alcohol and nitro are so cold you will struggle to get heat in it.
BTW........I have NEVER built a nitro engine but they DO sound sweeeeeet when you kill the alcohol and "turn-in" the nitro fuel. Make my nose run and my eyes water just talk'in bout it!!
6sally6

 

Sure does. It'll be my most expensive engine stand. Hahaha. Race fuel bores me when it comes to this stuff. I really want people to hear and know it.

 

find a nitro car that you can volunteer to work as part of the pit crew on....see how long you last.

 

Nitro needs something like 10 times as much fuel as a gas car. That pretty much leaves out carburetors. They just don't pass enough fuel. Maybe you could start out with 25-30% if you want a cackle car. Still need a big pump. The rest would be alcohol. I agree with the Hard Block.

 

^^^^ Jim's advice is sound. Same as anything else worth pursuing. Learn from the ground up. The more you know , the better off you will be.

 

Thanks for the info. Glad y'all tell me like it is. I had thought about putting the engine on trailer on a sort of engine stand to bring to shows. Just how much am I gonna spend on a nitro injected blown 454? I know none of it is gonna come cheap. Especially the machine work. I'll probably just build a gasser FED to race in the mean time. Also, could a engine like this be started with a 12V starter on the engine or will I need a bell housing to go along with it?

 

We are trying to look out for you , so you end up enjoying your dream and not in frustration. But since I don't think we are going to slow you down, find someone with experience that is not blowing smoke who can help and guide you. You start with that as a foundation then you will be on solid ground to move forward. You will also end up with the answers you need.

 

The worst thing that could happen is somebody taking you to the cleaners selling/building you junk or your dream dying.

 

Thanks fellas! I need to find some locals who know a thing or two about nitro. I wouldn't mind watching and learning for a spell before I jump into something like this.

 

I remember some years back, in one of the car magazines, was an article where racers were complaining of the $2500.00 they had to start paying for a drum of Nitromethane. This was when there became only ONE supplier. Even the NHRA was thinking about going into the Nitro business for it's racers; that never happened. Seriously, consider Methanol; it's more sensitive with temperature and is hygroscopic, but it won't break the bank everytime you flip the switch, and it won't beat up parts the way Nitro does. With Methanol, you do need to change the oil frequently as it contaminates the oil, but it also runs cooler. I think the advice of crewing on a Nitro team is a good way to learn just what it takes; if they want you to start out as the "lower end guy", RUN. Maybe make a trip to Don Garlit's Drag Racing Museum, or call and talk to him. I'm sure he can answer any question you might have, and then some.
I am Butch/56sedandeliverty.

 

I do wanna meet Don one day. Been to his museum a couple times. It's nice they have truck parking. Not far from my place either.

 

Here is a setup that can run straight nitro.
These are Stromberg 48's. Modified for floatless operation and with bored venturi's.
The whole thing has similar total flow to a 4 inch 4 hole injector.
HOWEVER, it is a real pita to change jets. You have to disconnect all of the lines to get the tops off the carbs.
You only have to change 2 jets on the injectors you would be running and they are real easy to get to.

If you want to run nitro, you need to acquire a full education on it, even if you never make a run with it.
While you are learning, take time to find out about other oxygen bearing compounds such as picric acid and hydrazine.
You can change the smell and the color of the exhaust with them and really keep the spectators guessing.
One big thing to remember is, all of this stuff is dangerous enough by itself but when you start compressing it, it REALLY can get violent. The dry residue from nitromethane in a container can explode by just dropping the container.

 

Are you absolutely sure you want to mess with nitro with no fuel experience? There is so much to know: fuel percentage , nozzle size, and on and on.

 

Read every post by RacerX, especially his Rebuilding after the Crash thread. Pay special attention to his comments on the security you’ll need to buy and store nitromethane.

I like the suggestion of crewing for a nitro car before setting out. You’ll learn a lot that way.


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Just buy a "complete", ready to run engine.
Make sure it's been built by a reputable shop that...KNOWS nitro powered engines.
Make sure you LEARN everything about this new engine from the folks that built it.

Then...IF you still have any money, you can go buy a 55 gal. drum and hit the starter and stand back.
By the way...Nitro is NOT available by the gallon..!

Mike

 

Forget most all of what was said above, except the part about finding a local fuel racer and getting on his crew. I was on a crew for about ten years and there is much to learn.
Could you build a fuel engine? Without knowing your experience I’ll say yes, but do you know and understand the clearances a fuel engine uses? Do you know proper procedures for starting and shutting down a fuel engine? Any idea on what will work and what won’t?
With some strong knowledge of what you are looking at you might be able to eventually build and assemble a fuel car but then there is the truck and enclosed trailer and all the support equipment a fuel operation needs
including federal clearance for having and storing nitromethane.
I hate to be a wet blanket but you do have much to learn.

 

The most annoying thing for you may be the EXTENSIVE SECURITY needed and licensing requirement to store and buy nitro. No more just go down and buy a barrel. Again look at racer-x post before you decide.

 

When I'm thinking of going to a gathering and there a cackle car there... I go somewhere else. What a waste of nitro and ear polution. If I offended anyone..your skin is not thick enough.
I love racing where it is used but draw a line at wasting it...

 

To buy a copy of the current N/TF record holding Donovan 417 will cost you $100,000 which is half of what it will cost you to develop the same. A decent "Cackle" engine (without help) is around $30,000, Keep the compression between 5 and 6 to 1 and you can idle/run the straight can without having to mix. Warm it up with an Alc. feeding tube and then switch to Nitro (1 gal a minute) for the show to reduce fuel cost

 

"Come on Connie. Can you hook us up?

 

What's the point of Land Speed Racing, cant really watch to whole run and can get results in real time over the phone, without having to be there. Cackle events are for the owners who still wish to participate without having to put up with the BS involved with racing. We don't require spectators to run or have a good time. Does not bother me one bit if you watch or wait in line for a hot dog while I "waste fuel"

 

"What's the point of Land Speed Racing," If you have to ask I just don't know what your doing here. You can see the whole run from inside the car. Spectators are on their own.

 

Exactly my point, Both are for the pleasure of the owners/drivers and they don't consider it a waste, they do it because they can andwant to. If one does not get excited about it and leaves because of it---that's them- but you don't have to post negativity about it

 

After reading your posts i can tell by the questions asked you have no clue about nitro. That's ok. Everyone has their first day learning about nitro. We all start in the same place. As mentioned above find a successful team to work with. Nitro is a unforgiving bitch. It's expensive and can be extremely dangerous. Some of the info already posted is false. Do your own research and get your hands dirty. It can be done. Don't be discouraged. Above everything get some experience first. It's the little details that will destroy your bank account or put you in a burn unit. Good luck.