Projects Garage Find: 1962 Rambler 2dr with 27k miles, but is it cool ?

OK ...had some time to take a look at the engine to see if I could get it running.

After getting it home I noticed 'someone' had had their fingers in the engine. New plugs, coil, wires, etc. I notice a gasket set with the head gasket missing. Before I started, I called the husband of the niece who sold me the car. I was told he could tell me all about it.

As I could figure out, the car was driven to MN in 1989. It sat for 10 years. The niece's mom (sister of Minnie) wanted to move it. Tried starting it, and the motor 'stuck'. The 80 year old boyfriend of the mom was a 'mechanic' and would fix it for her. He took off the head and dropped the pan and re-ringed it and new rod bearings. Put it all together and could not get it to fire at all..... gave up. Said he put his finger of the the spark plug hole and it had no compression. It's a flattie.... I assume he would have turned it over when the head was off to see the valves working ??? One hell of a mechanic ....

So, yesterday I put some ATF down all 6 holes. Today I decided to see what I have for compression. Zero in 4 of the holes, and about 60 PSI in the other 2... WTF. I looked at the valves through the spark plug holes and I could not see the valves moving in the 4 ZERO holes. The other two holes has movement..... Not the timing chain.

I guess I got a shit pile of stuck valves. I know nothing of these flatties. I assume the head needs to come off. Can they be lubricated and loosened from the top ? Can they be removed without dropping the pan ? I'll need to do some digging on this.

Its a great old car, but not sure about the motor. Is it worth the time to fix the old flattie or transplant something more dependable. I read somewhere a ford 200 straight 6 is an easy swap.... or just sell the car ....

I was hoping for an easy fix to Minnie running... ain't going to happen.

 

The head comes off EZ,so best way. But;If you can see any part of valve by looking in plug hole,=you can blast it with PB Blaster{or WD40} and after a few min. use a bent screwdriver an litely wiggel {not hard,don't need big screwdriver/don't want to bend valve or mess plug treads} too up n down tiny bit valve to start movement maybe/more PB an again. Why=making it run is fun an help with ideas of what to do after.

 

Should be able to take the two side covers off the passenger side to access the valve stems and springs. Penetrating oil and work them up and down.

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OK... Thanks ... looks like those covers will come off easy.. I assume you can remove the valves with the motor in the car if they are bad ? Can the valves be so corroded that they will need replacing ?

The head will need to come off to see what the hell is going on. Fun times !

 

If the valves are stuck see if you can loosen them from below before taking the head off.

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Good idea! Can you turn/move them with a wrench, pry-bar or pliers or ??

 

Easy way is to just take the head off. If you are careful you can reuse the head gasket. Squirt some oil around the valve stem and give a light tap with a hammer in the exact center of the valve (don't bend it). Stuck valves are very common on flatheads that have not run for years, more so than OHV engines for some reason.

Stuck valves is a sign the engine is not badly worn, if the valve guides were loose and sloppy they wouldn't freeze up.

While you are at it you can inspect the valves and seats for wear and burning.

These cars are tough to do an engine swap on. The engine is very small physically, I don't think there is a straight six or V8 that will fit without cutting. Have heard of later model 4 cylinder engines being swapped in but, if it was mine, I would try and get the original engine running.

 

First rotate the engine to see which if any are not following the cam. Those that are not are stuck. To free the stuck ones try penetrating oil on the stems and guides from below and also though the plug holes on top.

For a given stuck valve, rotate the cam so the lobe is away from the valve. Gently tap, not hit, the spring/stem with a rubber mallet. You may be able to gently pry it up and down as well. Repeat until it operates freely. Be patient and let the penetrating oil do its job.

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Great ideas guys! I'm glad I asked before I did something I regret !

So pull the head and side covers. I guess it's real important not to tap the valve while it is on the lobe of the cam.... duh, didn't think of that. The valves can't be bad/burnt with only 27k miles on it.

The head gasket is new and the engine obviously has not been run. Do you really think can re-use it ? I always thought head gaskets were a one time use.

I can almost hear it running now

 

Get it running and stopping. Then drive it everywhere or find a collector , don't change it, it'll never be that original again.

 

I am interested, do you have a sell price?

 

I would really like to see if I can get it running and determine if I want to keep it. My wife mentioned today that she actually likes it. With the e-stick, she could even drive it

But, I already have 8 classic cars... I really don't need 9....

 

low miles does not always give big smiles - look at thread "Rambler Question", just bumped back up

 

Great thread.... thanks!

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My aunt had a couple of those a sedan and a wagon. Both were flat ssixes and bother were woefully underpowered. With four people a full tank of gas and fishing stuff and a picnic basket in the trunk they were hard pressed to get to 55 on a level road. Hills forget it you were around 30 in second gear and getting passed by trucks. For an in town go for mobile might be a hoot for a while but any road tours should be avoided...

 

I too, had several stuck valves on a Plymouth flathead. Removed the spark plugs and sprayed WD40 in there, and cranked it over, over a period of a few days. The engine runs fine now.

 

Those are solid lifter motors -- but valves could be stuck open. Old gas that evaporated in the tank will leave a sticky residue in the guides when burned, and cause stuck valves. New gas with alcohol just dissolves the old gunk in the tank and cleans the tank -- sticks valve guides. Pulling the head isn't an easy task, but since it's been off before it might be. You have over 20 studs to pull it over, and they get crud down in the hole over time. Pulling one that has never been off in 100K miles can be a chore!! You're lucky -- that one has been off before. It's hard to get the valves unstuck without being able to push down on them. The lifters are the mushroom type. Only way to get the lifters out is to remove the camshaft. Since they are solids they don't need to come out though. Valves are hard to get out with engine in car, not much room on the side and hard to remove keepers. Engine is designed to drop out from the bottom, not the top. The upper brace behind the radiator doesn't come out, and will interfere with pulling engine from top. You can remove the water pump and balancer and get it out the top, but it's tough.

There area few modern fours (80s-90s) that will fit without cutting, and the Ford 144/170/200/250 family will fit. All other inline sixes (at least US made) are too long. Most engines are too wide. The narrow V-6s have accessories mounted way out to the sides, and most modern fours have intakes that stick out too far. Exceptions that I know will fit are the Ford Ranger 2.3/2.5 with the intake that curves over the valve cover, and the Jeep 2.5L with carb or TBI (84-90)-- the MPFI models of 91-02 have an intake that sticks out too far. A couple people have the carbed 2.5L and it drives better than the old flat-head. Not much faster, just peppier at lower speeds due to higher rpm design and newer transmission. Makes a great fun to drive cruiser. You can squeeze a small block in, but have to cut those humps off above the suspension on both sides. you can cut one side and get a bigger selection of fours to fit, including the MPFI Jeep 2.5L.

 

A while back I did this rendering for another HAMB member....Thought you might get a kick out of it.

 

Wow....lots of good info in your post ! I will be taking the head off later this week. Hopefully the valves will easily free up.

My concern is the old old gas in the tank .... has about 1/4 tank if I believe the gauge. I was going to drain it and perhaps dump a few gallons of lacquer thinner in there and let it sit and drain it. Pulling the tank and having it properly cleaned is more work than I want to do..... but it could save me a lot of issues in the future.

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What no hub caps? What is the story with the hub caps. Pull the head, turn the motor over and you will see some of the valves do not close. You can tap them to the close position but be careful not to hit them to hard or you might cause damage to the valve springs or retainers. Once you have all the valves opening and closing on their own, throw the head back on with a new head gasket and get the thing running. I say all of this because I had the same problem.

 

Yeah... tapping the valves down will work, but soak them with penetrating oil or a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF first. Also take the side covers off and make sure the lifter for the valve you're tapping is DOWN, otherwise nowhere for the valve to go! remember, solid lifters....

I'd drop that tank!! You're likely to have continuing problems if you don't. It's not hard once it's been drained. I'm pretty sure those have a drain plug, but if not drill a hole (careful!) sized for a self tapping screw. Make a gasket for the screw then put in after cleaning. Don't over tighten, thin metal! I always used brick cleaning acid to clean a tank. Follow dilution directions for cleaning brick. You need at least a gallon, and I let it sit for 2-3 hours. Get some baking soda and pour that in before draining to "kill" the acid. Clean with a good degreaser (Purple Power, Mean Green, etc.) after, rinse, let dry. It should be fine if no water leaks, but you might want to line it after it dries. Eastwood makes a good liner kit, but I've used Bill Hirsch products in the past (the Eastwood is similar, might be made by same and branded for Eastwood? It's that close...). You could just get their kit with cleaner instead of the acid and degreaser. I've never used their cleaner though, just the liner. It's very thin, like a paint coating, but it does work well even if you have pinholes.

The only issue you will have is the rubber filler tube on these cars. It's flared on the "top" (gas cap) end. There is a metal disc that holds the gas cap and holds the filler tube between it and the body. If the tube is damaged there are no replacements. I cut a bend of exhaust tubing (I think 2"... maybe 2.25"? Whatever the tube is, measure the metal tube on the tank) and welded to that disc. It's a tight bend so you have to cut it just right, making sure you clear the gas cap lips. Then you can use a straight piece of generic tubing between the cap and tank. I just made 3-4 tack welds then epoxied around the diameter to prevent warping the thin metal disc.

 

Just my 2 cents....it'd be cool just cleaned up or totally radical,probably not too exciting in between.

Are there really such things as sleepers anymore? I mean, when we see something old don't we all expect there could be something under the skin?

 

Got the caps, they were in the trunk. I have a set 15x6 wheels I'll powdercoat them same color as the stock ones are now..... the interior color, with baby moons. Will run radials 195/60 front, 205/75 rear. I have most of this laying around.... so cheap change. Save the stock wheels and caps for the next owner. I cant see buying new skinny tires.... waste of money....

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Did you get it running?

 

I think one of the first feature cars by Troy Trapanier (?sp) in Hot Rod magazine was a Rad Rambler American with 427 Chevy power. Someone good at searching could probably verify.

 

Mostly, I'm curious to know if he figured out how to drive that E-stick set-up.

 

Not running yet. I've been out of town with very little time to work on it.

However. I did manage to pull the tank. It had 10 gallons of 30 year old gas. It was way more crusty than I could have imagined. I brought it to the local tank renew place and will get it back later this week. Looks like the galvanized coating is coming loose. The tank will be cleaned and coated internally. Surprisingly the outside looked like new.

I did it up on the lift. I was presently surprised at the zero rust under the car. The outside of the tank looked like new...... thought it would be an easy dump the gas and rinse it.... but no.

I had to order a new fuel inlet hose, sending unit, and carb kit. Rambler parts are not cheap !

Head will come off next week to free up the valves.

Photo below is with a flashlight in the tank.

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I love it. Intelligent tinkering will have you on the road in no time. VW had an "auto-stick" setup similar to what it sounds like you have. It worked really good, my daughter's first car.

 

Can't find a lot of info, but did find a pic of Troy Trepanier's 1960 Rambler American two door wagon.
https://radrides.com/completed-builds/1960-rambler-rumbler/

 

I saw one of these, only a wagon, as a ralley type car in someones car show photos, on here recently that looked super cool
...I found it but cant post it here, P.M. sent in case you are interested Not tryin to promote it but it is cool