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Technical School me on NOS parts/factory 2nds

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by midnightrider78, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    I am hoping you guys can school me on this subject, because either I do not know what I thought I did or someone is being a royal prick. I'd just like to know before I say something I'll regret.

    I have been involved with auto repair and restoration for approximately 30 years. In that time I have worked with lots of new OEM later to be NOS parts from the Big 3. Based on my experience, I had determined that(at least with regard to the older parts prior to '80 or so) there was quite a bit of variation in the quality. Quality seemed to vary anywhere from "it'll have to do" to "this is a really nice part". Most of the other parts counter people, body repair people, old parts collectors, etc that I have come in contact with over this time have seemed to be of the same mindset.

    Now, even though some NOS parts(GM trim in this instance) are nicer than others, I have not ever heard anyone say they are not NOS because of the production quality. Today, for the first time ever, I have someone telling me these parts are not NOS, but 2nds or 3rds. ???? These are new, never bolted on GM parts.

    I always thought auto parts when produced were either acceptable or scrapped. Does anybody have any more to offer on this?

    I feel like someone is messing with me here.
     
  2. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 864

    patterg2003

    Ions ago about 1970. I had a Model T and subscribed to a magazine for restorers and the classifieds were full of NOS parts. Back then they were new parts discovered in old inventories, warehouses, dealers garages, distributors etc that were OEM manufacturers parts. The parts were OEM manufactured for the repair and replacement of parts, fenders, panels etc on the original car. There are ads all over the place for NOS that are the rusty original pieces salvaged off field cars and so the original meaning seems to have become hijacked for describing any original piece. It still stands for New Old Stock in my old rusty mind.
     
  3. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 2,693

    1-SHOT
    Member
    from Denton

    Nice Old Stuff
     
    wbrw32 likes this.
  4. Heard the ''seconds'' story before. From someone who was an ass about any subject. Stamping dies wear out, etc..
    You probably won't be able to make the guy happy, better off with a different customer!
     
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  5. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,415

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    In the GM box and old ( you don’t buy it last Christmas) is new old stock, GM never sold “seconds” in my part of the world and I’ve not heard of it. Same part same manufacturer but in the manufacturers box is NORS ( replacement stock). None of this guarantees perfection , things age , storage may not be great etc.
     
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  6. I know as far as dealing with GM (Chevy) stuff, the farther the "NOS" part was stamped from when the car was new the lesser quality the part was, but still was okay'd as they seemed to not really check on the parts quality. Corvette and 70 LT-1 valve covers are a good example. GM is still offering them over the service counter but they are terrible quality as the dies and molds are just shot. I have seen NOS GM sheetmetal (still in GM boxes or GM Stickers) that take more work to fit to a car than a new aftermarket piece as they were later stampings right before GM would cut the parts.

    I went through this when I restored my O/T 68 Camaro, as the car is all original, I hunted down NOS parts for the stuff I couldn't save and learned that it was better to find perfect production line stuff off other cars than NOS replacement parts for the most part. If the NOS part in manufacturers wrappers was made right around the time the car was being produced then the quality matches the rest of the stuff. If the car line died or went to a new generation then the quality began to drop off. It also goes in line with all terrible build quality of the new cars of the 70's and 80's
     
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  7. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    It's not unreasonable to expect after this many years that some of the remaining NOS parts might be defective in some way. That's why they went back on the shelf back in the day. A related deal is think of many times you replaced a part and stuck the old one in the new box? Sooner or later somebody will try to sell it.
     
  8. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've never heard of factory seconds on US made OEM parts. I'd agree 100% with Taboo56Chev in that some popular parts that were made years later using the same stamping dies or the same molds for the castings can well be not as nice as those made right around when the model was new.
    To me if it is not in the factory box or wrapper that it left the factory in or in some cases doesn't have the factory stickers or tags on it it isn't NOS it is just OLD. It's only NOS if it has never been installed.
    I've got a factory Ford cross spring I beam out in the garage that still has the factory pull tag on it. Axle has obviously never been installed but the time I offered it for sale as an NOS Ford axle in the classifieds the "experts" gave me crap about it not being NOS because it didn't have the Ford box that it never had with it. I still have no idea what it actually fits though.
    I don't have a real issue with old stock aftermarket parts that were pulled off the shelf in a parts house or warehouse in the original package being referred to as NOS They are old stock that has never been installed and sat on a shelf for longer than some guys on here are old. I used to go in a parts house in McGregor Tx in the 70's that still had old stock parts left from the 30's including the Ford Spring shackles I bought for my T bucket that were aftermarket replacements that had been collecting dust for who knows how long. The store owner was second or third generation in the same building and never threw anything away.
     
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  9. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Believe me, I am all too familiar with the folks who no longer know what NOS even stands for.

    The parts I sold are definitely new GM pieces. That's why I was confused when the buyer started going on about them "being 2nds" and not NOS.
     
  10. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    These were definitely new GM parts. I had never heard of 2nds before either.
     
  11. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    That is what I had experienced as well.
     
  12. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thinking about it a minute, on old stock trim and sheet metal you have to wonder how many times some of that stuff got moved around in a building over the years until it ended up in in the attic or back shed where it finally got dug out and sold off or given away in a clean out.
     
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  13. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Good to know that others are on the same page as me. This was definitely never installed and in the box. It drives me crazy that some people think NOS means perfect.
     
  14. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    Thanks guys!

    FYI this was a Vette part. I think I will try to avoid that stuff in the future.
     
  15. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,129

    prpmmp
    Member

    Hey!! I think we are really proud of our American cars! With that said we have to remember that the Big Automakers are a business, I cant see the bean counters throwing anything away, So not so nice parts are boxed up and sold as NOS. Plus our standards are much higher than when these cars were new. Remember these cars were not that nice, They were production cars not show cars. I still love them as they were!! Pete
     
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  16. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,388

    Squablow
    Member

    Been through this many times. NOS means it's a service replacement part that was manufactured by the original source company but never installed on any car. Typically, very old replacement parts made by outside companies are referred to as NORS.

    But people assume that NOS means flawless and often it does not. Sometimes the issues were from quality control at the factory, sometimes from storage and age. It still qualifies as NOS as long as it's never been installed.

    You just have a crabby buyer. The key to selling NOS stuff is to describe every flaw it has, fully and carefully inspected, so the buyer doesn't just assume it's flawless. Just as many sellers assume that if something is NOS in the original box, that it needs no further inspection or description.
     
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  17. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,136

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I'm guessing the parts that the production line guys originally installed were from the same bins that the warehouse got, mfg auto parts fall under the category of "within spec", just like I dealt with as an industrial machinist, and I'm here to tell you, as diligent as I was, I often turned out parts that weren't perfect (in my eyes), but they were within spec. and there is a tradeoff as to the acceptable amount of time spent on a part versus making a perfect part.
    Not every machinist has the same level of "pride in their work", that's why there are quality control departments, and in the world of mass production not every part is checked, so yes, there will be parts sent out that may not be perfect.
     
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  18. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    That was my opinion. I just wanted to get other's opinions in case I was the one being unreasonable.
     
  19. midnightrider78
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,285

    midnightrider78
    Member

    It's amazing how few people acknowledge this. And, interestingly enough, it is usually the cheapest people who have the most difficulty wrapping their minds around this.
    When I was younger, I worked building motorhomes for several years. It's crazy some of the things that are "in spec" on a 200k motorhome. Same goes for new homes. Just wow!
     
  20. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,827

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    I feel that NOS parts are assembly line rejects.
     
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  21. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 3,278

    Corn Fed
    Member

    I have a bunch of NOS in the GM boxes/wrappers for my 61 Vette. It all had been owned by the same guy for the past 50 years. The visual quality of some of it, especially the chromed pot metal parts, is no where near as nice as most of the repro stuff. The only guy who would be happy with it is the guy doing a 100 point resto that HAS to have a factory part. Anybody else who is used to todays super perfect chrome would probably think its offshore junk.
     
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  22. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,778

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    My mentor from years ago who was not only a first rate machinist, but also a first rate early Ford restorer always said that NOS did not mean it would fit. He had two semi trailers full of NOS fenders, hoods, etc. He was of the opinion that they were factory line rejects.
     
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  23. stanlow69
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 7,348

    stanlow69
    Member Emeritus

    Current Factory 2nds and 3rds are sold at a deep discounted price at the store of a company. Usually found after taking a factory tour. Or from a supplier of after market company that also sells defective parts that are not up to par also at discounted prices. Ground up restorer`s building 100 point show winners need to realize that they sometimes have to but 2 or 3 different parts to find one good enough to use on there car. That`s just the way it is.
     
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  24. green53ford
    Joined: Mar 4, 2009
    Posts: 206

    green53ford
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    As an autobody repair man of over 50 years as far as I am concerned most if not all replacement sheet metal was factory rejects.
     
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  25. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 9,214

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Over time I've bought quite a few NOS items for my 46 Olds that came in the OEM boxes, however in my quest to locate what I need I've come across items advertised as NOS and tagged differently as being a warranty return or blemished so it was swapped out at some time and returned to the dealer. The part(s) then found their way back into the market when the business closed down and someone came in purchased the complete inventory for a price. They have all the parts books with numbers and quickly identify what is for and the rest they say is history.
     
  26. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 4,304

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    I have a NOS grille in my '40 Ford. I took both halves out of the original Ford boxes myself. While it is nice, the back side of it is rough, not like most originals I've seen installed. Maybe it's shelf wear, maybe it's an assembly line reject, maybe it was made years after the car as a crash replacement by Ford.... but honestly the chrome is nice but probably not as good as a new Vintique.
     

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  27. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    That is not a 1940 Ford cardboard box. I bet you have an old Drake or other repro grille. Drake usually hid his name on the back of parts back then. And his stuff was nicely finished. So I bet it's another manufacturer.
     
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  28. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 4,304

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    Wow very interesting, I hadn't even considered that...
     
  29. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 2,514

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    DDD & Stumpy nailed it. It isn't - & never was - a situation of : Either nor/nors OR 2nd/3rd/blem. I've gotten some new-type parts from OEM dealers that weren't up to snuff, (exchanged)them for another(part was slightly warped or somesuch, but didn't fit correctly). The part I returned was in the oem box & went back on the shelf for someone else. I'm always suspicious of old parts (well, new ones, too. :D .). Quality *may* not be there, so's ya gotta look hard 1st.

    A few years ago, I ran across a guy selling an nos Stude '55 center grill. Perfect - except for a large (fist-sized) splotch in the chrome. Equivalent would be a very large boil on the promqueens' cheek. Didn't hurt functionality or fit, or even performance, but sure was hard to not notice. Esp at the perfect nos price. ;( . So even though I seriously considered it, I passed. At the min, it would've needed re-chroming to look right. Everybody has some standards. Some are fair, some are reasonable, & some are unreasonable. Just gotta match the right ones... :D .
    Marcus...
     
  30. i have a lot of N.O.S ford & g.m parts. I have an OT F100, low mileage, so when the time came to replace, i dug into my stash. Its really nice to have parts that were made for the truck, because i didn't have to make a bunch of trips back & forth to the auto parts store. Unfortunately, since the gm govt. bailout everything is overseas made. I bought dealer parts for the silverado, much to my surprise, as i threw the packaging away, i read made in India. doesnt seem like spending the extra money is worth it anymore
     
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